Optimal Role of Suppressors in Combat?

[BallisticHarmony]

I was unable to find a comprehensive discussion of this on M4C, but if I missed it feel free to shoot it my way. I'm just trying to find some information on when it makes sense for infantry to use suppressors in a combat environment, and on which weapons.

1. What is the general consensus now among the branches as far as when to supply troops on the ground with sound suppression?

2. Do the penalties of suppressors including increased weapon profile, weight, cyclic rate (non-OSS cans), fouling (non-OSS cans) and mirage outweigh their benefits?

3. Do integrally suppressed weapons have any future in military applications?

4. Are full-length cans or "CQB" cans being used more frequently?

5. How is using a suppressor on a carbine different than a precision rifle or MG?

Thanks in advance!

[t1tan]

In regards to 2. I'd say it greatly comes down to the can selected, suppressors are getting better all the time; materials, design, etc, but the best options aren't always the ones winning contracts. Most of what they market are gimmicks, but that aside, OSS cans are not exclusive in cyclic rate and fouling, other brands offer low back pressure suppressors(running over-bored suppressors on smaller calibers is gaining popularity as well and accomplishes the same thing i.e. 7.62 can shooting 5.56), no matter the brand of suppressor, ammo selection and gas system play a large part in all aspects.

[El Cid]

I believe we will see a day when modern military units around the world field suppressors to everyone. Kyle Defoor told us in a class they used them more for flash mitigation than sound because the mujahideen were VERY good at putting effective fire on you if they saw your muzzle flash.

The biggest benefit is the ability to communicate during a fight. If you google you’ll find the USMC did a long term T&E with cans. I think they had an entire battalion using them. They loved them and if I recall correctly they used them on belt fed MG’s as well as rifles.

[NYH1]

As El Cid mentioned, flash mitigation/signature reduction is probably the biggest benefit with using suppressors. The sound reduction is another benefit for obvious reasons. Also, if your guys are using suppressors and the bad guys aren't, it's easier/quicker to tell who's shooting and who isn't.

NYH1.

[Lost River]

The #1 thing during a Hot Wash/AAR (After Action Review) when discussing what went right, what went wrong, is pretty much always communications breakdown.

When things get loud, even if you are facing/right next to somebody and talking loudly, yelling, whatever, miscommunications happen. The ability to mitigate this is pretty dang important. It is even more so when working in/around vehicles, which anymore is pretty much always. In addition for example, if you are a vehicle commander, and you are trying to communicate to other elements what is going on, while your guys are actively engaged, that noise suppression is without question, a factor.

[Toltepequeño]

Way back when I was in I never saw a suppressor in the military, even earplugs were never worn. Fast forward decades and
Just about everyone I know from the military has hearing problems. Not all were firearms related, but many were. Mine included. In just the last decade they started recognizing it more.

Not sure about now but suppressors should absolutely be used. Like an earlier poster I think at some point they will become so.

[1168]

A 10.3” gun with a 6.2” 17oz suppressor will be a few ounces heavier in any almost any handguard and barrel profile configuration compared to a “SOCOM” barreled 14.5” gun unsuppressed. The only configuration it will weigh less in is 10.3” gov with MLOK G rail vs 14.5” “SOCOM” with DD RIS II. It will only be an inch shorter. It will have one extra accountable item for Pvt Snuffy, J. to lose or damage. The Mk18 will also have decreased effective range and lethality. There will be burns to offset the drop in hearing loss.

Muzzle flash difference between them is a wash, and there are WAAAAAY more cost effective ways to reduce flash.

A 12.5” with a 5” can would close the gap a little with the 14.5”, but would probably exhibit more flash than either previous example with NVDs. However, it would double as a nice “SMG” for POGs with no can attached.

SOF will continue to SOF, and I’m very much on board with suppressors, but I doubt the Army is going to equip every Soldier with a can in my lifetime, unless this next gen whatever project takes hold. Even then, it will take a decade or more to take hold in the entire Army. I can see the potential for the Army or MC equipping every rifleman with one, but its an expensive proposition.


ETA: y’all have already hashed out some good benefits for communication, and situational awareness, which is why I’m playing the devil’s advocate here.

[markm]

Kyle Defoor told us in a class they used them more for flash mitigation than sound because the mujahideen were VERY good at putting effective fire on you if they saw your muzzle flash.

Not to dismiss Defoor's observations... but Suppressors don't really reduce muzzle flash. In fact, I think the Blackout flash hider on it's own was more effective at flash reduction than the blackout mount with a can on it.

I've personally seen flash come out of my can. And a few cans come with flash suppressing prongs on the end cap.

[1168]

Not to dismiss Defoor's observations... but Suppressors don't really reduce muzzle flash. In fact, I think the Blackout flash hider on it's own was more effective at flash reduction than the blackout mount with a can on it.

I've personally seen flash come out of my can. And a few cans come with flash suppressing prongs on the end cap.

I concur. At least on the first shot, they tend to mostly contain the flash to the limit of their internal volume, rather than reduce it. So the remainder of the fireball comes out the aperture. Subsequent shots can be less flashy, but not a guarantee. I can say for sure that a 14.5 with a Vortex flash hider shows less flash than a 10.3 with NT4.

[lysander]

Not to dismiss Defoor's observations... but Suppressors don't really reduce muzzle flash. In fact, I think the Blackout flash hider on it's own was more effective at flash reduction than the blackout mount with a can on it.

I've personally seen flash come out of my can. And a few cans come with flash suppressing prongs on the end cap.

Fortunately, for the military, it would be possible to tailor the suppressor to the propellant and significantly reduce flash.