Inside The SS (Nat Geo)

[Budget]

The way I see it, it wasn't one thing that killed the Germans, there were many factors. I think the biggest issue for them was all that stupid mega tank stuff and wanting everything to fit multiple roles.

Had they built 60,000+ Panzer IV tanks and just said to hell with the Tigers, dual purpose ME262s, semi auto rifles that are also bolt action if needed, and stupid crap like building pistols until May 1945, it would have been an uglier Eastern Theater. They went from Bltizkrieg to retreat as fast as you can and lost any slow rolling and problematic tanks that way. Mainly the "cats."

I know rifles mean about nothing in the overall war effort but when your paratroopers lose all their guns because they can't jump with them attached, how are you supposed to fight Americans with pistols and neato HJ knives you earned for hating Jews more than someone else? FG42 seems awesome until its in a swamp you can't get to. Point is, they had a lot of flaws tied to overly complex equipment

At the end of the day, Hitler, SS, and the Nazi party as a whole were just a costume. There were a lot of blind followers willing to relive the glory days of the Ottoman Empire, and some wanting to reclaim Teutonic land. That's why Czechoslovakia got boned by the Germans: reclamation of Sudetenland. Lots of German folks wanted to feel German again, no matter how F'd up it was before. Kinda like how a lot of people thought the 50s and nuclear families were the perfect era. 1918-1936 is 18 years. We've literally been in Afghanistan that long, just as a perspective. Things have changed a lot since 9/11 yet we have people wanting to go back to those days and the Clinton era especially. Theres a grand illusion about the good ole days and the US is not the only country affected.

I will be watching this tonight, always interesting to hear new info and different concepts behind such an insane time. Wish there was more stuff on USSR too.

[Firefly]

The way I see it, it wasn't one thing that killed the Germans, there were many factors. I think the biggest issue for them was all that stupid mega tank stuff and wanting everything to fit multiple roles.

Had they built 60,000+ Panzer IV tanks and just said to hell with the Tigers, dual purpose ME262s, semi auto rifles that are also bolt action if needed, and stupid crap like building pistols until May 1945, it would have been an uglier Eastern Theater. They went from Bltizkrieg to retreat as fast as you can and lost any slow rolling and problematic tanks that way. Mainly the "cats."

I know rifles mean about nothing in the overall war effort but when your paratroopers lose all their guns because they can't jump with them attached, how are you supposed to fight Americans with pistols and neato HJ knives you earned for hating Jews more than someone else? FG42 seems awesome until its in a swamp you can't get to. Point is, they had a lot of flaws tied to overly complex equipment

At the end of the day, Hitler, SS, and the Nazi party as a whole were just a costume. There were a lot of blind followers willing to relive the glory days of the Ottoman Empire, and some wanting to reclaim Teutonic land. That's why Czechoslovakia got boned by the Germans: reclamation of Sudetenland. Lots of German folks wanted to feel German again, no matter how F'd up it was before. Kinda like how a lot of people thought the 50s and nuclear families were the perfect era. 1918-1936 is 18 years. We've literally been in Afghanistan that long, just as a perspective. Things have changed a lot since 9/11 yet we have people wanting to go back to those days and the Clinton era especially. Theres a grand illusion about the good ole days and the US is not the only country affected.

I will be watching this tonight, always interesting to hear new info and different concepts behind such an insane time. Wish there was more stuff on USSR too.

This is a good post.

Germany, to the free world’s benefit, got caught up in so much pedestrian BS that for every good idea they had they also had an equal and opposite bad idea.

Lots of far out technology advances but it wasn’t much practical when you have dudes shoving Garands up your ass from one side and shoving Mosins up your ass from the other.

When Tigers worked, they worked well. When they didn’t. It was over.

So much agreed on pistols.

Forgive the drift but super relevant anime clip:

[seb5]

The German Army redefined the value of the NCO Corps and made them professionals. They also implemented the use of Mission Command all the way down to the squad level, combined with good NCOs it gave them incredible tactical flexibility. Der Führer lost his focus and came out of his role, thus ****ing things up to a galactic degree. If he would’ve just given direction to the generals and let them deal with the strategy and logistics, we’d all be speaking German now as we live under the Man in the High Castle.


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I agree with the first part of your post but the second, not so much. Early on they couldn't figure out how to invade England so there was never much chance of them invading America. They never had the sealift or airlift capability. As was previously stated, they relied on horses for hauling beginning to end. They never planned the long game and even thier tactics were slow to evolve. They were probably better at flexible defense than offense in the grand scheme of the war. In most theaters the SS had seperate chains of command and never really worked that out with the Army. Many of thier officers had little or no formal military training.

As far as the SS, well Waffen SS, they initially were highly trained, well armed, and exceedingly brainwashed. It's interesting that many of their most successful units were primarily from other than Germany. Later on many were nothing but butchers. Rounding up and killing civilians was one of their primary jobs. I've always found the Eastern front very interesting and today anyone who is interested can buy dozens of .99 ebooks. Tanks, SS, snipers, lots of inforamtion out there.

[prepare]

How do watch the video? There no video in the link?

[Diamondback]

The way I see it, it wasn't one thing that killed the Germans, there were many factors. I think the biggest issue for them was all that stupid mega tank stuff and wanting everything to fit multiple roles.

Had they built 60,000+ Panzer IV tanks and just said to hell with the Tigers, dual purpose ME262s, semi auto rifles that are also bolt action if needed, and stupid crap like building pistols until May 1945, it would have been an uglier Eastern Theater. They went from Bltizkrieg to retreat as fast as you can and lost any slow rolling and problematic tanks that way. Mainly the "cats."

Also "prestige symbols" like Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau whose steel would have been better invested in a gazillion more U-boats and especially in counter-ASW capabilities. Not to mention the ludicrous insistence that even heavy bombers had to be dive bombers *stares pointedly at Heinkel He177 Greif*, or the lack of a properly built maritime patrol aircraft rather than the converted FW200 Kurier long-range airliner whose understrength structures regularly broke their backs on landing, among other catastrophic failures to the point that of hundreds built the maximum available strength at any single time was two dozen aircraft to cover the entire Atlantic and Mediterranean.

Sorry, guys, WWII's kinda my thing, though mainly between naval and air battles and the Southwest Pacific theater.

[26 Inf]

Not exactly in-line with the convo, but related: Anyone read The Liberation Triology by Rick Atkinson? I really enjoyed them and learned a lot.

[CAMagnussen]

And keep in mind the SS, in particular, was "blitzed" on Meth for most of the war!

https://www.amazon.com/Blitzed-Drugs...5463572&sr=8-1

[chuckman]

Not exactly in-line with the convo, but related: Anyone read The Liberation Triology by Rick Atkinson? I really enjoyed them and learned a lot.

One of the best historical anthologies of WWII ever written. A third of each book is sources and footnotes. Atkinson knows history.

[TexHill]

The German Army redefined the value of the NCO Corps and made them professionals. They also implemented the use of Mission Command all the way down to the squad level, combined with good NCOs it gave them incredible tactical flexibility. Der Führer lost his focus and came out of his role, thus ****ing things up to a galactic degree. If he would’ve just given direction to the generals and let them deal with the strategy and logistics, we’d all be speaking German now as we live under the Man in the High Castle.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that "we would all be speaking German now if Hitler had just let his generals make all the decisions". Germany would have lost the war regardless of who made the decisions. The war may have lasted longer, but the result would have been the same, the defeat of Germany.

Germany did not have a large enough population base to support a large scale military conflict, even before the Nazis started purging Germany of Jews and others that they deemed "undesirable". I would not be surprised if the Nazis removed 10-25% of their potential work and fighting force as a result of their purge. Forced labor and conscription from defeated nations is no replacement for citizens who truly believe in your cause.

[Firefly]

I respectfully disagree with your statement that "we would all speaking German now if Hitler had just let his generals make all the decisions". Germany would have lost the war regardless of who made the decisions. The war may have lasted longer, but the result would have been the same, the defeat of Germany.

Germany did not have a large enough population base to support a large scale military conflict, even before the Nazis started purging Germany of Jews and others that they deemed "undesirable". I would not be surprised if the Nazis removed 10-25% of their potential work and fighting force as a result of their purge. Forced labor and conscription from defeated nations is no replacement for citizens who truly believe in your cause.

This.

Only hardcore, DMT addled Wehraboos actually think Rommel could have miracled up a successful German Red Dawn of the Eastern Seaboard.

First off, have fun getting planes and boats over. Second, whomever survived all that would get shot.
Thirdly, whomever survived THAT would get shot again.

America may be racist, violent, angry, anti-social, and bipolar AF but nobody and I mean nobody wants to learn to speak German or have some dude boss them around. That schtick only works in places with Monarchs. Man in High Castle is interesting I guess but I don’t see Americans wearing far out uniforms like that all day.

Honestly, America was more racist than the Nazis in a lot of ways. But at least we weren’t complete assholes about it.

This is why I am an arrogant American. Some other people might have cool stuff and far out fashion but at the end of the day, Americans just wanna be left alone.

So no. We’d never have in any scenario be speaking German and Germany almost caught an A Bomb.

And the mast patriotic film ever made was Stripes!