Virginia 2A Sanctuary Ciity / County - Please share

[Diamondback]

Tell you this, if I was Sheriff of a Red county in a Blue-ing state, my first thought would be to not grandstand about it but quietly swear in as "special reserves" anyone who was interested that I couldn't find Good Cause to DQ. Then after I had every possible gun owner in the county sworn in, ask them to assemble on the courthouse steps with their first-line tools of choice and THEN make the announcement.

[.45fan]

It seems country is practicing with red flag laws to see how the cops will react to "orders given". So far like good little sheep they are doing what the sheppard is saying.

With all these posts I keep reading about cops being pro gun, why are we not seeing news stories about them saying "eff you I'm not doing that"?

What I am seeing is, the wrong people losing their possessions or people being gunned down by cops at zero dark thirty.

Don't fool yourself, cops care about their pension and your rights rank very low on their priority list. If you think I am wrong, why are we not seeing them fight the red flag garbage in 15 states now as opposed to violating due process requirements everyday?

The sanctuary stuff has no teeth (that I can see), so don't get fooled by it.

[BoringGuy45]

It seems country is practicing with red flag laws to see how the cops will react to "orders given". So far like good little sheep they are doing what the sheppard is saying.

With all these posts I keep reading about cops being pro gun, why are we not seeing news stories about them saying "eff you I'm not doing that"?

What I am seeing is, the wrong people losing their possessions or people being gunned down by cops at zero dark thirty.

Don't fool yourself, cops care about their pension and your rights rank very low on their priority list. If you think I am wrong, why are we not seeing them fight the red flag garbage in 15 states now as opposed to violating due process requirements everyday?

The sanctuary stuff has no teeth (that I can see), so don't get fooled by it.

First, immigration sanctuary cities have been very "successful", in that they've stifled quite a few immigration investigations.

Second, the reason you never seen stories about cops refusing to follow red flag laws for the same reason you never see stories about armed citizens preventing mass shootings: It doesn't fit the leftist narrative.

Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.

I understand that the police are not 100% united on guns. There are many who are anti-gun on principle and are licking their chops to kick down some doors and take some guns. There are many who believe they are morally and legally obligated to enforce any law if/until it's overturned whether or not they agree with it. And there are those like the ones you're talking about: Pension and benefits outweigh principles.

However, I can tell you from firsthand experience, and from being a cop, that they are in the minority. Remember, many cops ARE at risk here with their own personal guns. Many states, and I'm sure VA will be no different, prohibit police officers from owning prohibited weapons for personal use. I live in a ban state, and cops can only purchase "assault weapons" for duty use, and they have to have a letter from the police chief saying so. Once they retire, they have to turn that weapon in. They also can't carry 10+ round magazines while off duty even if they are department issued. So far, in my state, the only arrests for assault weapons laws have been of felons who weren't supposed to have any gun in the first place.

Also, cops know that they would be going to war to serve the very people who hate them, against the very people who support them. The life of a police officer these days is not a cushy one that makes your average rank and file cop want to do anything to keep his status.

In these deep red VA counties, they have the support of the people, the county government, and the sheriff in fighting the anti-gun state policies. This is as good as it's going to get for a cop: A chance to fight back against the leftists who have been making their lives miserable.

[chuckman]

https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-n...hatsoever/amp/

"AG Herring on 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘No legal effect whatsoever’"

I could see this end up in federal court. The courts will have to affirm that either all 'sanctuary jurisdictions' are legal, or all are illegal. Can't pick and choose; force ICE out but welcome ATF in.

[Tx_Aggie]

Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.

I'd say this is an example where the gentleman's firearms and CCW permit should not have been seized:

https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/c...y-guns-seized/

The community has since demanded Mr Nichols be reinstated as a crossing guard, but I've heard nothing of his firearms or CCW being returned.

[.45fan]

First, immigration sanctuary cities have been very "successful", in that they've stifled quite a few immigration investigations.

Second, the reason you never seen stories about cops refusing to follow red flag laws for the same reason you never see stories about armed citizens preventing mass shootings: It doesn't fit the leftist narrative.

Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.

I understand that the police are not 100% united on guns. There are many who are anti-gun on principle and are licking their chops to kick down some doors and take some guns. There are many who believe they are morally and legally obligated to enforce any law if/until it's overturned whether or not they agree with it. And there are those like the ones you're talking about: Pension and benefits outweigh principles.

However, I can tell you from firsthand experience, and from being a cop, that they are in the minority. Remember, many cops ARE at risk here with their own personal guns. Many states, and I'm sure VA will be no different, prohibit police officers from owning prohibited weapons for personal use. I live in a ban state, and cops can only purchase "assault weapons" for duty use, and they have to have a letter from the police chief saying so. Once they retire, they have to turn that weapon in. They also can't carry 10+ round magazines while off duty even if they are department issued. So far, in my state, the only arrests for assault weapons laws have been of felons who weren't supposed to have any gun in the first place.

Also, cops know that they would be going to war to serve the very people who hate them, against the very people who support them. The life of a police officer these days is not a cushy one that makes your average rank and file cop want to do anything to keep his status.

In these deep red VA counties, they have the support of the people, the county government, and the sheriff in fighting the anti-gun state policies. This is as good as it's going to get for a cop: A chance to fight back against the leftists who have been making their lives miserable.

First, What teeth does the sanctuary for gun laws have, how exactly will they prevent anything negative is what I am asking?

Second, We have a local newspaper that prints EVERYTHING about cops. My state doesn't have those laws yet, but once we do I guarantee that some of these small papers will report about a cop saying "I'm not doing that". With all the cops posting on all these gun forums you can't honestly believe that a cop has said "I'm not doing that" and it went unnoticed? I would post about it if I had knowledge of it, and would probably buy the cop a lunch if they were local for "doing the right thing". I have not once heard of this happening from any source, so left agenda might be a stretch on this one.

Third, You say red flag laws have no teeth, please explain? I am seeing the wrong people getting their guns taken, people getting killed, innocent veterans getting their lives turned upside down. This sure as hell seems to me like the teeth are biting the public rather hard. What I don't see is anything protecting the innocent from the liars and police, that should be what concerns people.

You said every news story has involved people that would lose guns anyway, even without red flag laws.
1) https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/flo...#axzz5x3496KJU
2) https://www.wnd.com/2019/10/elderly-...hool-shooting/
3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=111169
3) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marylan...oot-armed-man/

Here are three examples, yes number three has two different link. If you don't like the "source" there are many others feel free to look at others. My point being ONE is to many, I gave three so we should be able to agree that it is happening. If we can't agree on this it will boil down to us vs them again.

As for cops being prohibited from weapons….. Not in my state. A year or two back a local department had two cops that couldn't posses a gun off duty but carried at work, I don't know about you but I see all sorts of WTF in that. One involved domestic violance and the other involved probation for multiple dui.

You say deep in VA the sheriff is fighting, that is great. What happens if a local or state cops enforces the laws that the sheriff refuses to, will the sheriff arrest the other LEO? If not there are no teeth in that sanctuary claim. If they will, then I stand corrected.

You say many police believe they are morally obligated to uphold bad laws, that is where the problem lies. I am told most new cops have to have college education, that makes it even worse, since they learn what rights a person has in college then go out and violate them dealing with these red flag laws.
I am basing this off of what an attorney has told me about why my state doesn't have red flag laws yet, even though they have had bills for them the last few years. Something about them being overturned due to violations of folks rights.

[BoringGuy45]

First, What teeth does the sanctuary for gun laws have, how exactly will they prevent anything negative is what I am asking?

Lack of cooperation makes things tough to begin with. Second, if these counties are really ready to stand firm, it’ll be unlikely that state cops would want to shoot it out with local cops. They want to go home at the end of the shift. Most are going to conclude that confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens is not worth dying for.

Second, We have a local newspaper that prints EVERYTHING about cops. My state doesn't have those laws yet, but once we do I guarantee that some of these small papers will report about a cop saying "I'm not doing that". With all the cops posting on all these gun forums you can't honestly believe that a cop has said "I'm not doing that" and it went unnoticed? I would post about it if I had knowledge of it, and would probably buy the cop a lunch if they were local for "doing the right thing". I have not once heard of this happening from any source, so left agenda might be a stretch on this one.

Most cops I know are being pretty open on social media about their refusal to participate in red flag laws, AWB enforcement, etc.

Third, You say red flag laws have no teeth, please explain? I am seeing the wrong people getting their guns taken, people getting killed, innocent veterans getting their lives turned upside down. This sure as hell seems to me like the teeth are biting the public rather hard. What I don't see is anything protecting the innocent from the liars and police, that should be what concerns people.

You said every news story has involved people that would lose guns anyway, even without red flag laws.
1) https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/flo...#axzz5x3496KJU
2) https://www.wnd.com/2019/10/elderly-...hool-shooting/
3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=111169
3) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marylan...oot-armed-man/

Here are three examples, yes number three has two different link. If you don't like the "source" there are many others feel free to look at others. My point being ONE is to many, I gave three so we should be able to agree that it is happening. If we can't agree on this it will boil down to us vs them again.

Ok, I stand corrected that there are NO examples. Those are very disturbing. I would like to know if there is more to the story for each of those, but if not, isolated as they may be, that’s not good.

As for cops being prohibited from weapons….. Not in my state. A year or two back a local department had two cops that couldn't posses a gun off duty but carried at work, I don't know about you but I see all sorts of WTF in that. One involved domestic violance and the other involved probation for multiple dui.

Your state doesn’t have an AWB or mag capacity limits. Mine does. Cops are not exempt from restrictions against owning prohibited weapons for personal use. They can own them, keep them at home, but only use them for duty.

[quote]You say deep in VA the sheriff is fighting, that is great. What happens if a local or state cops enforces the laws that the sheriff refuses to, will the sheriff arrest the other LEO? If not there are no teeth in that sanctuary claim. If they will, then I stand corrected.[\quote]

He can refuse to book the arrestee into his jail. Also, we both live in states with large state police forces. In VA, the VSP is much smaller as they mostly do highway duty and not much else. The county is the center of government in VA. The sheriffs also preside over much larger agencies than that state police, and county law enforcement has primary jurisdiction and ranks at the top of the chain of command in any given situation in their county.

You say many police believe they are morally obligated to uphold bad laws, that is where the problem lies. I am told most new cops have to have college education, that makes it even worse, since they learn what rights a person has in college then go out and violate them dealing with these red flag laws.

Such officers are a problem, no doubt. My point is that a significant amount are not like that. Many will either refuse passive aggressively (“Didn’t see nothin’”) secretly sabotage anti-gun efforts, or stand beside the citizens. As I said before, the same ones wanting to send the cops in to take guns are the same ones that’ll call them a bunch of racists and throw them in jail the second it’s politically convenient. People don’t want to go into harms way to do something they are morally against on the orders of somebody they hate who they know will betray them.

I don’t think requiring college has created a problem. If anything, in my experience as a cop, the cops most willing to blindly follow orders were the ones without college, especially a lot of military guys.

I am basing this off of what an attorney has told me about why my state doesn't have red flag laws yet, even though they have had bills for them the last few years. Something about them being overturned due to violations of folks rights.

I think they’ll eventually get overturned, or at least neutered, in most cases.

[platoonDaddy]

It's just a trick to slow down the Dem's gun control/confiscation opposition. They'll let you keep them as long as you submit a list of what you have. BS

https://freebeacon.com/issues/virgin...uaries-expand/

Virginia Democratic leaders abandoned their gun confiscation proposal Monday following a grassroots outpouring of opposition to gun control across the state.

Governor Ralph Northam (D.) and incoming Senate majority leader Dick Saslaw (D.) said they will no longer pursue their marquee plan to ban the possession of "assault weapons." Instead, they will include a provision to allow Virginians to keep the firearms they already own. The reversal comes before the newly elected Democratic majority has even been sworn in, after a majority of the state's counties declared themselves "Second Amendment sanctuaries."

"In this case, the governor's assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period," Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky told the Virginia Mercury.

[prepare]

“They” will let you keep them and your “allowed” don’t apply to real believers of freedom.

[jsbhike]

Tell you this, if I was Sheriff of a Red county in a Blue-ing state, my first thought would be to not grandstand about it but quietly swear in as "special reserves" anyone who was interested that I couldn't find Good Cause to DQ. Then after I had every possible gun owner in the county sworn in, ask them to assemble on the courthouse steps with their first-line tools of choice and THEN make the announcement.

Sounds good. Would immediately differentiate those who mean it versus those just saying it and have a better chance at being effective.