Shootout in Florida

[Ron3]

At some point they gotta run out of gas. This could have been a talk down.

Nope.

Had to play Heat.

Plus they had a bird in the air.

Nope. Had to play Heat.

Before reading further in the thread, this was my thought.

Got a hostage, easy to find vehicle, got a helicopter on it: hang back, way back. Get other copters ready and coordination with other agencies. Let the bad guys cool down some, too.

Would the cops there have done the same if they knew it was one of their own hostage inside that truck?

Even if you're being fired at, if you're back stop isnt good (in this case, other cops and general public) you can't return fire. (Unless you have the weapon and discipline to very carefully get 100% hits)

Otherwise keep moving for a better shot, angle, or real cover.

Very sad event.

[WillBrink]

Before reading further in the thread, this was my thought.

Got a hostage, easy to find vehicle, got a helicopter on it: hang back, way back. Get other copters ready and coordination with other agencies. Let the bad guys cool down some, too.

Would the cops there have done the same if they knew it was one of their own hostage inside that truck?

Even if you're being fired at, if you're back stop isnt good (in this case, other cops and general public) you can't return fire. (Unless you have the weapon and discipline to very carefully get 100% hits)

Otherwise keep moving for a better shot, angle, or real cover.

Very sad event.

Playing devils advocate, the goblins are firing from the truck and don't give a damn who they hit, do you sit there and wait for that perfect shot or do you make the decision to stop the threat asap under less than ideal conditions? Under some circumstances, where not responding may be the less ideal choice to responding under less than perfect conditions. Lets go with this: LE took cover, maneuvered for a good shot, and meanwhile, 3,4, 6, etc people in those cars are shot. Now what? People would lose their minds with "you cowardly bastards, why didn't you engage them immediately!"

There comes a time where damn if you do and damned if you don't and a terrible decision is made under stress that one option may = less deaths than the other terrible decision.

The goblins have a say and some times people die, and that sucks big time, but some times there's losing big and losing bigger, and no "win" for the day.

[jpmuscle]

The UPS truck


https://www.instagram.com/p/B5x2fATD...d=a89vsm04gsec


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[MountainRaven]

[Ron3]

Playing devils advocate...Lets go with this: LE took cover, maneuvered for a good shot, and meanwhile, 3,4, 6, etc people in those cars are shot. Now what? People would lose their minds with "you cowardly bastards, why didn't you engage them immediately!"

The goblins have a say and some times people die, and that sucks big time, but some times there's losing big and losing bigger, and no "win" for the day.

Yea, but I think backing off when they saw the traffic stopped might have kept the BG from panicking.

I'd guess the BG was only shooting at the Police, not everybody.

I would not have shot back even if I was being shot at unless I was 100% certain of a good hit. I'd rather risk the incoming bullets than shoot a cop or innocent.

This cant be the first time these hard lessons have been learned. And it's so sad theyll be an empty chair at two tables on Christmas Day.

[prepare]

Spanish language news is showing a pretty clear and uncensored view of the UPS driver being gunned down like a dog.

Leaves behind two little girls, 3 and 6, who will never know their father.

Unreal.

can you post a link to that vid?

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

"Well this is what I know I would've done." - some tool who has never been placed in a situation like this

"I know that if I I did X, then Y would've happened." - some other tool who posts on the internet about what he would do in these situations without ever having done anything in his life remotely dangerous beyond bungey jumping when he was 19.

M4c...the new arfcom.

[WillBrink]

Yea, but I think backing off when they saw the traffic stopped might have kept the BG from panicking.

Or, seeing thy were stuck, jumped out and taken a bunch more hostages in a different vehicle. They'd also been firing on LE during the long chase, so again, that shipped seemed to have sailed.

I'd guess the BG was only shooting at the Police, not everybody.

While paying close attention to who the backstop was? Never heard of a goblin yet who cared who they shot in such a situation.

I would not have shot back even if I was being shot at unless I was 100% certain of a good hit. I'd rather risk the incoming bullets than shoot a cop or innocent.

See comments above. If that inaction actually caused more death, then that would double suck. If the terrible decision is to stop the goblin now to prevent something even worse, is action worse than inaction? I don't know the answer to that Q, but some times there's simply not happy endings, only less terrible endings to a terrible situation created by the goblins.

This cant be the first time these hard lessons have been learned. And it's so sad theyll be an empty chair at two tables on Christmas Day.

That's the Q, do they learn something from it and act accordingly, or do they go back to biz as usual? I don't know the answer, and I have no doubts it could have been done better, but also easy to say as 20/20.

I'm willing/able to see both sides of this until I have more hard details to read.

[Firefly]

"Well this is what I know I would've done." - some tool who has never been placed in a situation like this

"I know that if I I did X, then Y would've happened." - some other tool who posts on the internet about what he would do in these situations without ever having done anything in his life remotely dangerous beyond bungey jumping when he was 19.

M4c...the new arfcom.

It’s not that bad but yeah.

Barfcom has a lot of Best Buy salesmen and DUI lawyers who are experts on everything.

Like....At the end of the day, we weren’t there.

[Wake27]

Seems like a lot of people in this thread not big fan of the cops, ..............add me to the list.

What most American citizens dont even know is that police have NO DUTY to protect you, or that UPS driver, they did not care.

Neither the US Constitution, nor any state law, impose any duty upon any police officers to protect individual persons from harm, even when they know the harm will occur. Police can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution and not be liable.

They didn't give 2 $hits about that UPS driver as they had no legal obligation too.

Dont believe me, Google is your best friend.

That coward cop that fled the high school in Parkland Florida when the shooting started in Feb 2018 , was sued, and the courts found in the cops favor, that he was hired as a security guard but had no legal duty to protect anyone. He was in his right to flee.

Those cops had no duty to protect that UPS driver. He was just in their way.

Wow. Take that ridiculous shit somewhere else.


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