Shootout in Florida

[OH58D]

I’m with opmike

Where are you seeing that? Another forum perhaps?

On several other forums, not here. This incident is really stoking some anti-LE flames, without even any consideration that the cause were two ex-cons willing to shoot any and all to escape.

[pinzgauer]

What would be the prudent thing to do if this was your commute home? Pat Mac would say don’t get boxed in but...

Do folks need to ride around in SAPIs and a MICH to work?

Prudent thing: move out of broward/dade. And I say this as some who grew up there and still have friends/family there.

This kind of thing is not the biggest risk to living in the area. IE: there are Walmarts and gas stations on US-1 along decent residential areas that are very heavily targeted and high-risk.

South Miami & Coral Gables used to be a great place to live. Past tense.

[jsbhike]

If you follow the Alt-Right group and try to keep up what they're up to, this Florida incident is just causing them to come unhinged, with all kinds of anti-LE rants and a push for the Boogaloo. They push their own version of anarchy in a destruction of organized government and rebuilding the system into something they like, very much like the Communist Progressive Left and ANTIFA allies.

Believe me, I have interacted personally with such people in person and they profess Alt-Right philosophy, even though they get irritated when given that label.

Whether self named (to appear as a positive to some?) as anarchists or by 3rd parties as derogatory name calling, the label anarchist being applied to a group wanting large and over reaching government, whether left or right, is on par with calling no infringement, individual liberty, wipe all anti-gun laws off the books 2nd Amendment supporters as Nazis.

2 forms of anarchy I can think include one with no government...just the law of the jungle where the physically powerful subjugating the meek(although not surprisingly the influentially mighty subjugating the meek doesn't get the anarchy label). While that is the desired mental image that gets triggered, it also doesn't seem to be of utmost concern (so long as contained away from elites) as can be demonstrated the laissez faire handling of certain areas of the country with parts of Chicago being an excellent example.

The other version of anarchy I have heard of is best described as no kings. Government and laws, but no exemptions from laws for select groups(executives, legislators, judges, prosecutors, le, mil) as we have now. Very close in concept to classical, old school, little "l" libertarians that liberals and conservatives alike try to sound like when wanting something, but both loathe the idea of any of the concepts coming to fruition.

[john armond]

One of the videos I saw, taken from a car I believe was next to the older guy that was killed, showed a crowd of people that looked like they were leaving work all walking right toward the incident, just like they would normally do, through the crosswalk. They appeared to be totally oblivious to the huge amount of police and the fact that anything was going on even though the squad cars were clearly visible and sirens were blaring. It wasn't until shots started popping off that they, as a whole, even seemed to notice something was wrong.

I believe the black car in the video was the car the second bystander was killed in. If that's the case, it was heading away from the shooting and turning at the intersection. The camera operator ran toward the shooting to get the police after seeing the guy in the black car get hit. This video was shot by someone speaking a mixture of Spanish and English, and was shown in a Spanish language news show. The positioning of the black car and the police makes me thing the second guy shot, if this was him, was more than likely shot by the suspects or less likely by a through-and-through of the truck from police. This is just speculation from a single video though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[tn1911]

On several other forums, not here. This incident is really stoking some anti-LE flames, without even any consideration that the cause were two ex-cons willing to shoot any and all to escape.

Well sure, this whole catastrophe was initiated by 2 dangerous crooks. But what we've seen with our own eyes is, well shocking to say the least and at a minimum deserves some very critical eyes towards how it all ended.

The taxpayers of Broward Co. will certainly be punished over this, I can only imagine what the final bill will look like.

But to respond to your anti-LE flames. I think I have an idea what's happening here so bear with me a bit.

First there is a level "trouble" in LE land today that might be just as much political as it is criminal, but I suspect it's more political. Recent high profile events such as the Houston drug raid, the Dallas cop who killed her neighbor and the Ft Worth cop who killed a home owner under very questionable circumstances, all the way to the Florida cop who was planting dope on well over 100 innocent travelers and the north Georgia cop who was arresting perfectly sober drivers for DUI... the list could go on and on.

The public sees all this and begins to form an aggressive opinion of LE as a whole because they do represent the enforcement arm of the .gov which most people already despise, just look at the approval ratings of various .gov bodies. So when something like this happens which looks very bad on the initial approach people immediately remember all the really bad stuff the cops have truly done in the past and that anger just spills over.

The cops are just as guilty at jumping to conclusions when the tables are turned. One recent example of this was how quickly that Houston PD union cop was to lash out and threaten people who were critical of the cops in the immediate aftermath of the botched Houston due raid, turns out the gut instinct of the public was right and the cops were all wrong.

The cops are quick to try and isolate an actual event of real police misconduct or crimes and portray it as if it happened in a vacuum absent from every other act of misconduct documented in the media. The public is very much the same. I've always thought of it as tribal on an instinctive level. Don't make it right but it also don't make it wrong.

The police in this country are suffering from a lot of issues that are starting to hurt them. Its affecting recruitment and retention of the very people you and I want to be cops.

Yes some among us really think they want the boogaloo but that's just stupid. Who in their right mind wants a Libya or a Syria on our own soil. People with low IQ's and no sense of reality, thats who.

What we know right now is that this incident will almost certainly effect the way things are handled going forward, right now I guarantee that somewhere in agencies all over this country trainers are taking notes and asking questions to their staff about how this can be handled differently, more effectively and with less threat to the public.

One such change I could see happening might be how the actual chase itself gets handled. Instead of letting it run its course, now the cops might be forced to pick the spot where it ends. Which means the effectiveness we saw of the area cops to seal off the interstate to traffic trying to get on which cleared out many miles during the chase where few to no innocents were around. Maybe thats where the cops will be the ones to initiate the violence. force the vehicle to stop and quickly and swiftly end it. This will mean the cops will be exposed to very high levels of danger but thats the risk that comes with the job they all volunteered for. If thats unacceptable then perhaps the individual cops needs to rethink their career choice.

I think had such an event occurred here and the only innocent lost was the UPS driver the conversation would be much different. It would be a huge tragedy still, but one normal everyday people like you and I could live with.

Hopefully the police learn from this and change for the better. We all deserve a professional police force, what happened in Miramar was anything but.

[WillBrink]

On a lot of other forums, this incident is being turned into a "Jack-Booted Thug" slam fest. I think the whole incident got out of control, especially when the shooting started, but I am not a Law Enforcement basher. I have too many friends in that profession and it's a tough way to make a living sometimes.

However, there is an element in this Country called the Alt-Right, and they are fringe operators who are anarchists and hate any kind of government or law enforcement. They are the extreme fringe Right equivalent to ANTIFA on the extreme far Left. The Alt-Right likes to cloak themselves in the word Patriot, but are nothing but a bunch of social outcasts and dead-enders who just don't fit in normal society.

I deal with them on some Libertarian pages. They're not Libertarians but sovereign citizen anarchist D bags who think they align with Libertarians. I can say, libertarians can be very anti LE, and that's one area I don't jibe with at all. There were a few posters here making comments heading in that direction and were shut down.

I have no time for the extreme fringes of the left or right myself.

[jpmuscle]

On a lot of other forums, this incident is being turned into a "Jack-Booted Thug" slam fest. I think the whole incident got out of control, especially when the shooting started, but I am not a Law Enforcement basher. I have too many friends in that profession and it's a tough way to make a living sometimes.

However, there is an element in this Country called the Alt-Right, and they are fringe operators who are anarchists and hate any kind of government or law enforcement. They are the extreme fringe Right equivalent to ANTIFA on the extreme far Left. The Alt-Right likes to cloak themselves in the word Patriot, but are nothing but a bunch of social outcasts and dead-enders who just don't fit in normal society.

Just to be clear the the “alt-right” moniker got hijacked by the media circa the 2012 election run up and bastardized into the pejorative descriptor that it is today. It was very much born out of the Tea Party movement and at the very most represented a more modern twist on traditional conservative, and dare I say “boomer” values. As such it was demonized by both sides of the isle despite resonating with significant swaths of the electorate.

Sadly it succumbed to revisionism and bully pulpit sponsored rebranding and thanks to milquetoast republican losers it was successfully pushed aside by the political powers to be.

Now Alt-Right = Nazis and that was never the case.


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[Firefly]

I don’t want this to drift too far but

1. The term Alt-Right up until 2017 had no racist nor fringe connotation. It was literally “alternative Right” and consisted of people who were financially conservative but still sorta liberal or centrist socially. They would have been called “South Park Republicans” c. 2003. That term scared people because we can’t have blacks, women, and other types of people who are willing to vote Right in order to avoid Hillary so it had to be made into a “racist group” to shame people away. The people you refer to like the Sovereign or Patriots movement have always been there and always been dangerous.

2. The LE bashing on other forums like AR15.com is scary because it usually boils down to “I hate cops because I couldn’t join the academy and I got a ticket”. Boogaloo is a meme like Kekistan and Pepe. Nobody seriously expects there to be one. But the usual Printer repairmen, plumbers, and DUI lawyers there take it too far and weren’t helped when Mr. Gunsngear told fatasses in tac gear to swarm police and shoot “traitors” because of a drunk guy in an attic having a Domestic incident and showing ass on instagram instead of calling his lawyer.

3. I’ve had my own spicy hot takes of the incident; I would have to say the Broward School shooting still left a bad taste in my mouth. Even I, myself, sometimes get in a snit. Having seen more uncensored video and with more info coming out about the robbers; I am leaning towards that it was just a bad Fing day. I doubt anybody got up that morning anticipating a shootout like that. I can criticize but at days end I wasn’t there. It did look like if they could have kept the vehicle moving that maybe it could have been guided somewhere less populated. Looking back it’s actually kriegsglückt that more folks weren’t wiped out in traffic.

[graffex]

Ugly situation all around. Hopefully some lessons will be learned.

[drsal]

Prudent thing: move out of broward/dade. And I say this as some who grew up there and still have friends/family there.

This kind of thing is not the biggest risk to living in the area. IE: there are Walmarts and gas stations on US-1 along decent residential areas that are very heavily targeted and high-risk.

South Miami & Coral Gables used to be a great place to live. Past tense.

The event that occurred in Miramar was an extreme rarity. For me, south beach, & south Florida is a great place to live; great restaurants, beaches, fun atmosphere, multiple events like Art Basel etc. Like every other municipality in the nation, there are areas that one avoids, but for the most part its quite safe and fun.