Shootout in Florida

[dwhitehorne]

Most agencies only do the minimum training required to get all the checks in the block. Getting most cops to do more than required in training is a bitch. They fight you every step of the way and will try to cause issues within the groups. When you pull an officer of the street for training you have an open hole in the shift schedule which has to be covered. Admin would rather get the state required training completed for the year and nothing else since it takes money out of the budget and officers off the road.
Dan

This is spot on with what I see everyday at work. David

[T2C]

The whole thing was a dumpster fire from the word go. I’ve read several places where everyone is blaming the law enforcement action taken. Let’s back it up. The two pos’s who started it are to blame. End of story. Two innocent lost their lives and that is the travesty in this whole debacle. Let be happy there weren’t any more innocent lives lost. Let’s be happy there weren’t any officer killed. It will be analyzed over and over again. Let the investigation happen.

This past weekend has been a shit show for law enforcement murders.

One last thing, Peterson was a dumb ass at the high school and I do not support what he did.

There is video footage shot from at least one helicopter. Do you know if a police helicopter was following the UPS truck or another helicopter flown by a news outlet with a crew member that was in direct contact with LE dispatch while the UPS truck was being followed?

Was there an industrial area nearby or was the UPS truck headed toward a less populated area while it was being pursued?

Was there only one LE agency on scene when the firefight occurred?

[OH58D]

There is video footage shot from at least one helicopter. Do you know if a police helicopter was following the UPS truck or another helicopter flown by a news outlet with a crew member that was in direct contact with LE dispatch while the UPS truck was being followed?

Was there an industrial area nearby or was the UPS truck headed toward a less populated area while it was being pursued?

Was there only one LE agency on scene when the firefight occurred?

The video I saw looked like it came from a news station, and it kept losing focus. I thought there were several departments involved. They had entered the community of Miramar and there were officers from Pembroke Pines (the adjacent PD from the north) who had joined in. The direction of travel from Coral Cables was north bound. If they had not closed off that next 4 way intersection, there would not have been the traffic jam and the UPS truck would have continued northbound. Looking at maps, it seems to thin out to a more residential suburban locale.

[T2C]

The video I saw looked like it came from a news station, and it kept losing focus. I thought there were several departments involved. They had entered the community of Miramar and there were officers from Pembroke Pines (the adjacent PD from the north) who had joined in. The direction of travel from Coral Cables was north bound. If they had not closed off that next 4 way intersection, there would not have been the traffic jam and the UPS truck would have continued northbound. Looking at maps, it seems to thin out to a more residential suburban locale.

There are a lot of retired and active LEO on other websites that are asking why pursuing LEO did not follow the UPS truck from a distance until they reached a less populated area. Their thought process was to follow the UPS truck to an area where there would be fewer innocent people within the danger zone before setting up a roadblock or making contact.

[OH58D]

There are a lot of retired and active LEO on other websites that are asking why pursuing LEO did not follow the UPS truck from a distance until they reached a less populated area. Their thought process was to follow the UPS truck to an area where there would be fewer innocent people within the danger zone before setting up a roadblock or making contact.

Lots of "What if" thinking about this deal. The UPS truck had already gone at least 20 miles - what if you let it go another 20 miles or pick a number? At high speed there could have been a wreck with someone's vehicle, they run out of gas, another vehicle get's carjacked and another person is either shot or taken hostage............

I personally think LE was scrambling just to stay on top of this situation and going from one municipality to another you have added confusion of other departments also trying to get up to speed on what was going on. Since I don't automatically condemn LE in this incident, I may not be popular with some.

I just think it could have gone so many different directions with untold possible outcomes. It's sad when two bad guys are the cause of the deaths of two innocents when it should have been two dead bad guys only.

[JoshNC]

There are a lot of retired and active LEO on other websites that are asking why pursuing LEO did not follow the UPS truck from a distance until they reached a less populated area. Their thought process was to follow the UPS truck to an area where there would be fewer innocent people within the danger zone before setting up a roadblock or making contact.

There are no less populated areas in South Florida. This was a very tough, very unfortunate scenario that I think really can’t be Monday morning quarterbacked.

[Firefly]

The more I meditate on this the more I honestly think this was going to end poorly no matter what.

I think at times we devise lots of little “formulas” based on 20, 30, and sometimes 40 year old training films. Seriously. I’ve seen porno from the 80s that had better acting and presentation than training films made of that era that are still shown.

It took 9/11 to illustrate that the “innocent” days of terrorism no longer involved hijacking a plane to land and play Monty Hall until Delta Force shows up

Same here, I posted a link. You had 40 year old robbers. They knew they weren’t getting out of this by the time they took over the truck.

I mean, seriously, someone tell me..

Slow moving vehicle, blocked by traffic, they have a hostage and are willing to shoot. I admit I was negative towards them because it is Broward county. But then I thought about it.

Getting shot at, not the best cover, it’s already spoiled, and I have a rifle and I am not going to die here. You can only do so much at any given time while being reactive.

And some point they were gonna hit traffic regardless.

I think in our minds we want them to follow the plan. Get to an unpopulated area, stage up, set up snipers, get a negotiator, get their family on the horn, and talk them down.

That’s a nice formula but it doesn’t happen that way.

I admit I was too hard on them at first but I can’t war game a better scenario. They were gonna fight regardless.

[Firefly]

There are no less populated areas in South Florida. This was a very tough, very unfortunate scenario that I think really can’t be Monday morning quarterbacked.

This.

This was just a straight up Kobayashi Maru. It happens

[T2C]

There are no less populated areas in South Florida. This was a very tough, very unfortunate scenario that I think really can’t be Monday morning quarterbacked.

You're right, it was a tough situation. Questions were asked, but judgment reserved until all the facts and factors related to the incident are learned.

A few of the commenting retired LEO that I know had been in pursuits that ended badly.

[TheChunkNorris]

There are no less populated areas in South Florida. This was a very tough, very unfortunate scenario that I think really can’t be Monday morning quarterbacked.

This and it was in rush hour on a Friday.