Shootout in Florida

**tn1911** · 12-07-19, 17:13

Originally Posted by OH58D

Here is my primary question about all of this:

Did LE know there was a hostage in the UPS vehicle, or did they only know it was a stolen vehicle with criminals inside?

In one of the many videos I saw of this incident one of the traffic choppers was mentioning a UPS driver

**WillBrink** · 12-07-19, 18:11

Originally Posted by Firefly

You know...seeing THAT angle without the censorship ‘for my own good’....it looks like they were using the UPS guy as a human shield.

I think at that point the suspects figured if they were gonna die then the hostage was gonna die too.

I don’t like the outcome but I can see a little better where maybe it was a forced hand. Again, I wasn’t there.

Perps were gonna ride or die

It's astounding "only" the UPS driver and one other person died, and I have not heard if the other person was due to LE or the perps. It was his first day on the job as a lone driver too. That truly sucks.

**Firefly** · 12-07-19, 18:21

Originally Posted by WillBrink

It's astounding "only" the UPS driver and one other person died, and I have not heard if the other person was due to LE or the perps. It was his first day on the job as a lone driver too. That truly sucks.

I don’t want to be definitive but it looked like the perps shot first and I have a hunch that they likely caused the other fatality (popo hiding behind occupied vehicles didn’t help....)

**OH58D** · 12-07-19, 18:46

So this thing started during rush hour in Coral Gables and continued unimpeded for 20 miles, with LE blocking off side traffic. The UPS truck traveled around 20 miles with no interference until it arrived in Miramar and traffic congestion. It seems to me LE wanted this vehicle to continue and they would follow until it entered a less congested area or ran out of fuel.

I have heard that the local small police department of Pembroke Pines got involved in Miramar and attempted to shut down traffic in a major 4 way intersection in front of the UPS vehicle with the intention to allow the vehicle to continue, but traffic control got screwed up at that intersection and all traffic was stopped. That shut down of movement led to the shootout at that less than ideal location.

I got this info from a buddy of mine who works in government in the Miami area.

**prepare** · 12-07-19, 19:35

Its easy to armchair quarterback when we are just watching a video from up above with the advantage of hindsight... why didn't they just do ___________ fill in the blank. But the bottom line is that conflict is unpredictable.

**TheChunkNorris** · 12-07-19, 19:44

Originally Posted by jsbhike

What does Mrgunsngear have to do with any of this?

Not having all the facts about a current event and talking for the sake of talking.

Originally Posted by OH58D

So this thing started during rush hour in Coral Gables and continued unimpeded for 20 miles, with LE blocking off side traffic. The UPS truck traveled around 20 miles with no interference until it arrived in Miramar and traffic congestion. It seems to me LE wanted this vehicle to continue and they would follow until it entered a less congested area or ran out of fuel.

I have heard that the local small police department of Pembroke Pines got involved in Miramar and attempted to shut down traffic in a major 4 way intersection in front of the UPS vehicle with the intention to allow the vehicle to continue, but traffic control got screwed up at that intersection and all traffic was stopped. That shut down of movement led to the shootout at that less than ideal location.

I got this info from a buddy of mine who works in government in the Miami area.

I pointed that out earlier. It’s unfreaking believable that they did as much as they did to control traffic. I live in Miami and about 15mins south of the Gables. Think there’s good points in this thread from some people with the exception of the Boogalo bois. I saw one vid from about the 5 o clock vantage from the UPS truck, it appears as if one of the LEOs jumped with his weapon pointed at the truck. He then quickly breaks for cover, so either he was shot at or he was about to get shot at. With about 6000hrs of UAS imagery time, I can only guess that based on their reactions... they all started shooting once they were shot at.

Just think it’s difficult to gauge what would’ve been the best outcome in that horrid situation. Coral Gables is a small municipal dept, pretty sure Miami Dade(largest dept) was present and can only assume South Miami (very small muni), City of Miami(second largest), and whatever Broward assets were available. I know it sounds dumb but there are numerous small depts that joined a larger force. Various training requirements, different procedures for pursuit, and different mindsets for the area the officers work in. Not that it matters but I look at the uniforms, Miami Dade is the only Sheriff’s Dep in FL that has Khaki uni’s(other than Troopers) and Broward county boys wear all green. There was a lot of plain clothed people so who knows but this was a disaster as soon as they left the Gables.

All in all, this has great training value for the rest of the country. There will be new TTPs implemented because of this with the hopes it’ll have a better outcome in the future. Really think some of those officers feel terrible about what happened, there is indeed a psychological strain on them as they went back home to their families... especially during the holidays. Life isn’t fair and this is proof of that.

**WillBrink** · 12-07-19, 20:46

Originally Posted by OH58D

So this thing started during rush hour in Coral Gables and continued unimpeded for 20 miles, with LE blocking off side traffic. The UPS truck traveled around 20 miles with no interference until it arrived in Miramar and traffic congestion. It seems to me LE wanted this vehicle to continue and they would follow until it entered a less congested area or ran out of fuel.

I have heard that the local small police department of Pembroke Pines got involved in Miramar and attempted to shut down traffic in a major 4 way intersection in front of the UPS vehicle with the intention to allow the vehicle to continue, but traffic control got screwed up at that intersection and all traffic was stopped. That shut down of movement led to the shootout at that less than ideal location.

I got this info from a buddy of mine who works in government in the Miami area.

Now that's interesting and makes a lot of sense.