Shootout in Florida

[WillBrink]

Opportunity? Most UPS drivers I've seen making deliveries leave a door open on their truck.

Sure, but it sounds to me like something forced them to change plans as I don't envision them having made no plans for getting away as they'd been doing this for a while. Maybe getting into the gun fight with the store owner was the cause, but seems weak to me.

[26 Inf]

Boy, this post stinks of ivory tower safety.

When was the last time you got into a shootout with:


And I am genuinely curious. Just based off of that generality, multiple armed suspects who just committed an armed robbery, armed motor vehicle theft, kidnapping, etc are by your estimation not dangerous? In other circles of the world beyond yours, they would be considered the most dangerous animal on the face of the earth.

I read all this nonsense and it just cracks me up.

No offense intended, I just want to point out that you and several folks on this thread are coming off as defenders of police actions no matter what. I don't believe that is your intent, but that is the vibe I'm picking up.

Go back to page 7 on this thread. Look at the Mexican/Spanish TV video. I'm not familiar with generally accepted training that would advocate guys moving into the open, at a truck containing a couple of folks who were shooting, at the speed these guys were moving. First day tactical analysis would also indicate that if you swing wide on that approach w/o cover, you are giving the bad guys in the truck the advantage.

I posted this earlier:

The driver, and the citizens on the expressway, didn't have the luxury of choice.

You unass a patrol unit on a call with a rifle, hell, any kind of police equipment, and you are making the promise to the public that you know how to use the equipment correctly to protect.

There is such a thing as contagious fire, just because it is a thing doesn't mean it should be accepted. Some of the folks who were firing during the various videos I've seen clearly shouldn't have been firing IAW the four rules.

Whether it was a training issue, a personnel issue, or a communications issue, is unknown to me. But, I believe this needs to be a learning experience for all LE.

[tn1911]

......okay.

How would you have righted the wrongs that day even with 20/20 hindsight?

Realistically. None of this playing God bit.

Here’s what we know:

-They were willing to shoot
-They didn’t mind using a human shield
-This was not their first robbery
-Traffic was a mess that day

You tell me, with your street savvy, how that could have gone better.

I seriously cannot think of anything after some consideration that could have pushed the needle towards anything peaceful.

You know, slick.... “Two retards”. Yeah. With guns. Shooting at you. At that point, Social status, race, religion, GPA, Credit Score, and all that are a complete non-issue.

I’m just waiting to hear your big solution so we can get the FBI to make it SOP.

You invoke science fantasy then cop an attitude when called out on it...

There were many points during that 25 mile chase where the locals had done a great job of choking off traffic from getting on the interstate.

It would of been a better choice for the cops to have chosen the point where violence was to occur not the bad guys.

[Firefly]

No offense intended, I just want to point out that you and several folks on this thread are coming off as defenders of police actions no matter what. I don't believe that is your intent, but that is the vibe I'm picking up.

Go back to page 7 on this thread. Look at the Mexican/Spanish TV video. I'm not familiar with generally accepted training that would advocate guys moving into the open, at a truck containing a couple of folks who were shooting, at the speed these guys were moving. First day tactical analysis would also indicate that if you swing wide on that approach w/o cover, you are giving the bad guys in the truck the advantage.

I posted this earlier:

The driver, and the citizens on the expressway, didn't have the luxury of choice.

You unass a patrol unit on a call with a rifle, hell, any kind of police equipment, and you are making the promise to the public that you know how to use the equipment correctly to protect.

There is such a thing as contagious fire, just because it is a thing doesn't mean it should be accepted. Some of the folks who were firing during the various videos I've seen clearly shouldn't have been firing IAW the four rules.

Whether it was a training issue, a personnel issue, or a communications issue, is unknown to me. But, I believe this needs to be a learning experience for all LE.

This is the constructive content I enjoy reading that separates this place from Barfcom.

There was clearly no order in their approach. I can back them up totally until it turned into a chinese fire drill. Too many chiefs and not enough injuns and the little enfilade they had running kinda showed that.

Could’ve been better could’ve been worse.

A lesson for sure.

[Firefly]

You invoke science fantasy then cop an attitude when called out on it...

So we can’t do metaphors anymore?

ETA still waiting on your solution

[T2C]

Will Brink asks good questions and 26 Inf brings up valid points. It will undoubtedly take weeks to thoroughly investigate the incident and give us a clear explanation about what occurred.

[flenna]

The one image that is sticking in my head is that I am stuck in traffic on the freeway with my family. Suddenly there is a police officer leaning across my hood firing at bad guys while my car with me and my family in it start taking incoming rounds. Essentially using us as human shields, which is a problem.

[Firefly]

Will Brink asks good questions and 26 Inf brings up valid points. It will undoubtedly take weeks to thoroughly investigate the incident and give us a clear explanation about what occurred.

This. The intellectual approach would be to wait for a total after incident scene processing.

Plus body cams. Right now we are debating over aerial news reports. We cannot see what the officers in contact saw nor even get a definitive on whose bullet killed whom.

[T2C]

Sure, but it sounds to me like something forced them to change plans as I don't envision them having made no plans for getting away as they'd been doing this for a while. Maybe getting into the gun fight with the store owner was the cause, but seems weak to me.

I pulled this out of the OP's link to the article: "The suspects fled in a truck, then carjacked the UPS delivery truck and its driver not long afterward to start the chase into the southern portion of Broward County."

We'll have to learn what prompted the suspects to switch vehicles, i.e. the truck was blocked in traffic, police disabled the vehicle, etc.

[tn1911]

So we can’t do metaphors anymore?

ETA still waiting on your solution

Yeah on second thought your post was kinda funny so apologies

But my thoughts on handling it were just below the quoted part of my post