Poll

[jferguso]

Check your private messages. You will NOT get better accuracy out of a semi-auto in .308 than you will out of an AI in .308. But who cares? At 700 yards, you will get plenty of accuracy. More details in my PM to you. I won't post it here, for it will only incite a lot of ignorant comments.

I don’t see a private message.


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[Pappabear]

Most LMT guns shoot MOA or better. SR25 I gotta think the same. This crowd appreciates reliability and accuracy. My buddy bought a GAP that was very accurate but not reliable.

If you buy a SS LMT or KAC gun, you will get MOA or better results. I hate to say it but, the boy in TX can make a tack driver too.

Buy 1-2or 3 and be good.

PB

[Furbyballer]

I would highly recommend V7 Weapon Works. Now that Joel has entered into the ar10 game he is putting out 6.5 and 308 guns that are true half minute gas guns that weigh in at less than 7.5 lbs. Truly amazing.

[grizzman]

I haven't read much about these particular uppers, but Compass Lake Engineering offers them in 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Winchester, with your choice of Douglas, Krieger, & Bartlein (and Criterion in .308) barrels, in various lengths.

[jferguso]

Thanks everyone. I’m going to start with samples from JP (competition oriented), Nemo (boutique), and KAC (MIL/LE). I feel like that is a good cross section of the industry. If none of those float my boat I will branch out (LMT, Barrett, LWRC, possibly Falkor). I’ll update as I go.


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[CAMagnussen]

And...you will spend way too much for any results you will get. It all comes down to how well you have mastered the fundaments of precision rifle shooting. IF you know your stuff, a bolt action will alway be more accurate. Semi-auto "good enough" as far as I'm concerned. If you have not mastered your fundamental rifle skills, you can spend all the money you want on hardware, but unless you have your "software" issues down, you are wasting your money. But if you feel spending a lot of money will make you a better shooter, it's your money and it is America, so who gives a F. Cheers.

[jferguso]

And...you will spend way too much for any results you will get. It all comes down to how well you have mastered the fundaments of precision rifle shooting. IF you know your stuff, a bolt action will alway be more accurate. Semi-auto "good enough" as far as I'm concerned. If you have not mastered your fundamental rifle skills, you can spend all the money you want on hardware, but unless you have your "software" issues down, you are wasting your money. But if you feel spending a lot of money will make you a better shooter, it's your money and it is America, so who gives a F. Cheers.

The T&E rifles will cost me nothing. And how do you quantify way too much? Isn’t that 100% subjective?

You had an AI, right? Are there not bolt action rifles that will get within a couple tenths MOA for thousands less? My AI retails for $4500. A Tikka shoots 0.5 MOA and retails for $1800. Don’t get me wrong, I love my AI to death. The question is, why do we pay more when we could pay less? Answer: it varies, but we ALL do it for our own reasons. When I say the budget isn’t an issue, don’t interpret that as me having more money than sense. First of all, it isn’t my money. Second, the budget is based on the cost of a premium bolt gun. I do not HAVE to spend that much, but it is not a problem to do so if needed to accommodate whatever fits my needs the best.

I’m not at all new to precision rifle shooting. I teach it. My experience just happens to be limited to bolt. You said your LMT was getting 0.37 MOA. At 700 yards, your AI is shooting a 1.83” group (in theory, according to your 0.25 MOA experience). Your LMT will shoot a 2.71” group at 700 yards, if your 0.37 MOA figure is extrapolated. A human head averages 7” x 9”, or 0.95 MOA x 1.23 MOA at 700 yds. Is 0.37 MOA just “good enough”? And since when was good enough not good enough? If it didn’t mean it met specified parameters then it wouldn’t be good enough, now would it?

My buddy bought a bike a while back for riding some local trails. He bought way more bike than he needed for the trails around here, and I told him as much. I was in the middle of giving him a hard time and proving how he could’ve saved money on a bike that would be “good enough”. He shut the whole argument down by stating that “other people research things too”, that he got exactly the bike he wanted and that it was his money. All of these things were true and I let it go.

I don’t mean to attack someone that is trying to help but I sense some condescension and it’s unnecessary.


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[grizzman]

If you're able to get samples, then you should be able to come up with a solid solution. I wish I had the same ability.

Once you've tested your samples, please report the results here. I'm sure others are also curious how well they perform.

[jferguso]

If you're able to get samples, then you should be able to come up with a solid solution. I wish I had the same ability.

Once you've tested your samples, please report the results here. I'm sure others are also curious how well they perform.

Will do


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[Pappabear]

The T&E rifles will cost me nothing. And how do you quantify way too much? Isn’t that 100% subjective?

You had an AI, right? Are there not bolt action rifles that will get within a couple tenths MOA for thousands less? My AI retails for $4500. A Tikka shoots 0.5 MOA and retails for $1800. Don’t get me wrong, I love my AI to death. The question is, why do we pay more when we could pay less? Answer: it varies, but we ALL do it for our own reasons. When I say the budget isn’t an issue, don’t interpret that as me having more money than sense. First of all, it isn’t my money. Second, the budget is based on the cost of a premium bolt gun. I do not HAVE to spend that much, but it is not a problem to do so I’ll if needed in order to accommodate whatever fits my needs the best.

I’m not at all new to precision rifle shooting. I teach it. My experience just happens to be limited to bolt. You said your LMT was getting 0.37 MOA. At 700 yards, your AI is shooting a 1.83” group (in theory, according to your 0.25 MOA experience). Your LMT will shoot a 2.71” group at 700 yards, if your 0.37 MOA figure is extrapolated. A human head averages 7” x 9”, or 0.95 MOA x 1.23 MOA at 700 yds. Is 0.37 MOA just “good enough”? And since when was good enough not good enough? If it didn’t mean it met specified parameters then it wouldn’t be good enough, now would it?

My buddy bought a bike a while back for riding some local trails. He bought way more bike than he needed for the trails around here, and I told him as much. I was in the middle of giving him a hard time and proving how he could’ve saved money on a bike that would be “good enough”. He shut the whole argument down by stating that “other people research things too”, that he got exactly the bike he wanted and that it was his money. All of these things were true and I let it go.

I don’t mean to attack someone that is trying to help but I sense some condescension and it’s unnecessary.


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Fergo, Solid points, I dig it. And I feel you you on many issues. Send me the T&E when you tired of one. I just bought a DD Delta 5 from a T&E experience. And I love it.

PM for my address.

PB