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Thread: Afghanistan Papers

  1. #1
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    Afghanistan Papers

    Supposedly, a bunch of internal docs that claim the war was viewed as unwinnable and lots of rosy false reports fabricated to keep the public happy and the $$ flowing. I suspect a lot of it is not going to surprise those here who have been paying attention and such. Painting a rosy picture to keep public support is as old as war itself, so that aspect does not really trigger me per se.

    I have not gotten deep into the weeds on this one myself, and the paper that "broke" the story (https://www.washingtonpost.com/) requires a subscription, so I can't comment on whether this is more a yawn to those who know how the machine works and a shock to the public, or it's legit beyond the usual stuff:

    No cohesive strategy, check
    Trillions of $ used, check
    Rosy reports to maintain support, check
    Rumsfeld is a POS, check
    People lost who didn't need to be lost, check
    And don't even get me started on Iraq, check

    Anyone read it? Am I missing anything?

    One take:

    https://www.theamericanconservative....nistan-papers/
    Last edited by WillBrink; 12-12-19 at 09:00.
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    Yeah looking back there was no real objective and that detour into Iraq was pretty pointless.

    You cannot win if you have no goals.
    I think it was by Fall of 2003 that I realized Rumsfeld was seriously out of touch. Like not the usual out of touch but seriously out of it.

    I feel like if they had realistic goals, realistic objectives, and realistic attitudes that it would have stayed contained to Afghanistan and UBL would’ve been killed or captured a lot sooner. There was a far better case to invade Saudi Arabia than Iraq.

    We got played during a moment of crisis.

    ETA remember Aliens when Ripley asked “If we go. We go to destroy them. Not to study and not to bring back?” and the guy says “Yeah” but was lying?. That’s pretty much what happened.
    Last edited by Firefly; 12-12-19 at 08:52.

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    Bureaucracy at its finest. Huge waste of lives and treasure. The past 18 years used to fund the military-industrial complex. The only reason we are still there is to try to save face at this point. We should have cut sling load a long time ago.

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    By the end of December 2001 we had done what we set out to, and what was reasonable and doable. We toppled the Taliban and tracked down OBL. We did it extremely well. To many peoples reports Toro Boro would have been a success if not for ROE and requests by CIA/ Delta Commanding officer not having been met by higher ups.

    Everything after that is nation building, which pretty much never works. But, endless wars are endless money.

    Military. Industrial. Complex.

    In Iraq we saw what modern war profiteering looks like. In that case is was unabashed and celebrated. Think Blackwater, Haliburton, KBR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS951 View Post
    By the end of December 2001 we had done what we set out to, and what was reasonable and doable. We toppled the Taliban and tracked down OBL. We did it extremely well. To many peoples reports Toro Boro would have been a success if not for ROE and requests by CIA/ Delta Commanding officer not having been met by higher ups.

    Everything after that is nation building, which pretty much never works. But, endless wars are endless money.

    Military. Industrial. Complex.

    In Iraq we saw what modern war profiteering looks like. In that case is was unabashed and celebrated. Think Blackwater, Haliburton, KBR.
    Don’t forget Fluor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS951 View Post
    By the end of December 2001 we had done what we set out to, and what was reasonable and doable. We toppled the Taliban and tracked down OBL. We did it extremely well. To many peoples reports Toro Boro would have been a success if not for ROE and requests by CIA/ Delta Commanding officer not having been met by higher ups.

    Everything after that is nation building, which pretty much never works. But, endless wars are endless money.

    Military. Industrial. Complex.

    In Iraq we saw what modern war profiteering looks like. In that case is was unabashed and celebrated. Think Blackwater, Haliburton, KBR.
    We won, we should have packed our gear and left.
    We didn't.

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    Nobody ever wins in Afghanistan.

    You can only hope to put in the government you want and run like hell as it all comes crashing down.
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    Nobody ever wins in Afghanistan.

    You can only hope to put in the government you want and run like hell as it all comes crashing down.
    Not sure how one even defines winning there at this point. Right now, we're indirectly funding heroin production there.
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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Not sure how one even defines winning there at this point. Right now, we're indirectly funding heroin production there.
    The definition in this case is "complete lack of strategic goals."
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    The definition in this case is "complete lack of strategic goals."
    As everyone indicated and to paraphrase, Caesar "we came, we saw, we concurred" and then we did the classic US thing and decided we needed to stay and nation build and right the wrongs of the world, insert a US friendly gubment, ignore the fact that Pakistan is our allies and harbored OBL, privatize the war to make some a lot of $, etc.
    - Will

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    LE/Mil specific info:

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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