On general firearms accuracy...

[Slater]

A rule of thumb used to say that, for a given caliber, a bolt gun will usually have the edge over a semiauto in terms of accuracy. Given modern manufacturing techniques, does this still hold true?

[Firefly]

Not really. It WAS true in an era of M14s but now its approaching fuddlore

[Arik]

Yes and no. Depends on the semi auto. A quality AR 308 yes.

[Budget]

My anecdotal information is no but it is so apples and oranges, who can say for sure? I really don't even know how to properly compare the two since there are so many variables.

My 1 off story is when I borrowed a coworker's Remington 700 with NXS 5.5-22 and shot it against my 16inch BCM with Steiner PX4i. At 100 yards BCM was printing tighter groups using 60 grain TAP (I was actually shocked by the accuracy since everyone suggests these are 2 MOA guns). I'm sure that 700 would shoot better with different ammo but that's what I had on hand. I'm starting to hate guns, it's getting boring saying "AR and G19."

[lsllc]

A rule of thumb used to say that, for a given caliber, a bolt gun will usually have the edge over a semiauto in terms of accuracy. Given modern manufacturing techniques, does this still hold true?

Absolutely. But odds are you, or most people on this forum cannot exploit it.

Here are some facts of the matter:


-Bolt guns are easier to shoot.

-Bolt guns have a shorter lock time.

-Bolt guns have no reciprocating mass.

-Bolt guns have a more solid attachment method to the receiver.

-Bolt guns have a tighter lockup, less flex.

Anybody that says semi-autos are as accurate (which you’re really meaning precise, accuracy is on the shooter) and we’re talking the best of the best here, doesn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground and they probably prefer Thai lady boy dick to pussy.

There are no BR records being set with semi-autos. Semi-autos are not winning in competitions, F-class, etc.

There is just more potential with the bolt action in terms of precision.

Additionally, one can buy dollar for dollar, a more precise tool when selecting a bolt-action over a semi-auto.

The better, more precise semi-autos just cost 3-4x more for the same, or even a touch less performance.

But here’s the dirty little secret. You’re not a good enough shooter for it to matter. Most people here aren’t. The level of precision of both bolt-actions and the better semi-autos these days is completely adequate for the targets you’re going to shoot.

For instance, I have an old 700PSS with a 10x Leupold I paid $650 for. The optic was probably another $600 or $700. With factory Federal 175 SMKs j routinely get groups in the 0.3-0.4 MOA range for five rounds.

I have a LaRue OBR with a Leupold Mark 6 3-18x. The rifle was over $3,000 and the optic $2000. With the same ammo it shoots 0.6-0.7 MOA for five rounds.

The Remington is lighter. It’s more maneuverable. It’s easier to shoot. It’s easier to spot impacts when I don’t have a spotter. I can run it just about as fast as the OBR. Obviously it’s more accurate. This isn’t anecdotal, either. I have a safe full of bolt-actions from $300 to $7000 and just about any one of them will perform as well as if not better than the OBR or any of my other ARs.

But if I were to use any one of them for realzies, the semi-auto is more effective as a defensive weapon. Throwing 25 or 30 round magazines trumps a 0.2 MOA increase in performance.

Hunting, target shooting, competition, etc the bolt gun is a better value and easier to manage.


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[Firefly]

My anecdotal information is no but it is so apples and oranges, who can say for sure? I really don't even know how to properly compare the two since there are so many variables.

My 1 off story is when I borrowed a coworker's Remington 700 with NXS 5.5-22 and shot it against my 16inch BCM with Steiner PX4i. At 100 yards BCM was printing tighter groups using 60 grain TAP (I was actually shocked by the accuracy since everyone suggests these are 2 MOA guns). I'm sure that 700 would shoot better with different ammo but that's what I had on hand. I'm starting to hate guns, it's getting boring saying "AR and G19."

This is the final red pill.

I hate guns so much I got the most reliable, boring, no frills ones and got a life instead.

[armtx77]

Absolutely. But odds are you, or most people on this forum cannot exploit it.

Here are some facts of the matter:


-Bolt guns are easier to shoot.

-Bolt guns have a shorter lock time.

-Bolt guns have no reciprocating mass.

-Bolt guns have a more solid attachment method to the receiver.

-Bolt guns have a tighter lockup, less flex.

Anybody that says semi-autos are as accurate (which you’re really meaning precise, accuracy is on the shooter) and we’re talking the best of the best here, doesn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground and they probably prefer Thai lady boy dick to pussy.

There are no BR records being set with semi-autos. Semi-autos are not winning in competitions, F-class, etc.

There is just more potential with the bolt action in terms of precision.

Additionally, one can buy dollar for dollar, a more precise tool when selecting a bolt-action over a semi-auto.

The better, more precise semi-autos just cost 3-4x more for the same, or even a touch less performance.

But here’s the dirty little secret. You’re not a good enough shooter for it to matter. Most people here aren’t. The level of precision of both bolt-actions and the better semi-autos these days is completely adequate for the targets you’re going to shoot.

For instance, I have an old 700PSS with a 10x Leupold I paid $650 for. The optic was probably another $600 or $700. With factory Federal 175 SMKs j routinely get groups in the 0.3-0.4 MOA range for five rounds.

I have a LaRue OBR with a Leupold Mark 6 3-18x. The rifle was over $3,000 and the optic $2000. With the same ammo it shoots 0.6-0.7 MOA for five rounds.

The Remington is lighter. It’s more maneuverable. It’s easier to shoot. It’s easier to spot impacts when I don’t have a spotter. I can run it just about as fast as the OBR. Obviously it’s more accurate. This isn’t anecdotal, either. I have a safe full of bolt-actions from $300 to $7000 and just about any one of them will perform as well as if not better than the OBR or any of my other ARs.

But if I were to use any one of them for realzies, the semi-auto is more effective as a defensive weapon. Throwing 25 or 30 round magazines trumps a 0.2 MOA increase in performance.

Hunting, target shooting, competition, etc the bolt gun is a better value and easier to manage.


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Pretty much sums it up. The fact that accuracy is used to describe precision in most of these types of threads, is infuriating.

Point to be taken here: most of us are not good enough.

[BoringGuy45]

I guess the question would be, at what point would the advantages of a semi-auto outweigh that of a bolt action, or vice versa?

[lsllc]

I guess the question would be, at what point would the advantages of a semi-auto outweigh that of a bolt action, or vice versa?

Define the task. Are you on a stalk through the mountains? Are you being called out for a hostage situation? Are you trying to win a PRS match? Are you pulling overwatch through a fourth floor window with nobody but a spotter watching your six?

Mission drives gear.

For the 99.9% or the people he it doesn’t matter.


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[Alex V]

Anecdotal again, but I was able to hit a 1000y target with my 20" OBR 308 with the same amount of effort as with my 20" Tikka Tac A1 308.

For my at least, the semi auto seems just about as accurate as the bolt gun.

I did have a 25X scope on the OBR vs 16X on the Tikka, but both were set to roughly 15X.