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Thread: Front Squat Question

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sndt1319 View Post
    I started trying to fix what was wrong with my back squat around injury two. Over the years I've bought strong lifts, watch video's, physical therapy, personal trainer...... I guess you could say that I'm a little jaded. I've gotten to the point where I guess I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. When a physical therapist tells you that you have body dimensions that make it easy to hurt yourself doing an exercise that you have repeatedly hurt yourself on, it seemed like the smart move is to stop doing it.

    The smart move would be learning to do it correctly. Unless you have some sort of underlying physical disability- I cannot speak to that.

    And as has been so “eloquently” stated earlier, PT’s are pretty far down the ladder as far as health professionals go. Professional strength coaches would have far different and better advice to give.

    Check the ego at the door, lower the weight and start anew

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by n517rv View Post
    I highly recommend getting a copy of both Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength 3rd Edition and if you're over 40 get a copy of Andy Baker and Dr. Johnathan Sullivan's excellent book The Barbell Prescription.

    Excellent resources on YouTube include:
    Starting Strength
    GreySteel
    Barbell Medicine
    Best advice right here. I can also recommend the Starting Strength app, which I found convenient versus re-reading the book after several years.

    I think we would be doing you a disservice, however, by not recommending you try to find a solid, legitimate trainer with experience with athletes and, even better, recovering athletes. Starting Strength would be my first check to see if they have someone local (don’t do remote if coming back from injury). Second could be a college or high school strength coach.
    Alternatively, you can do what I did: learn the squat and dead on my own, then go to a CrossFit location, make observations of the trainer quality, and if you like what you see, get one of them to get you where you need to be. (For me, that was: “your form is perfect, let’s get you on Rippetoe’s linear progression”). It’s easy to poopoo CF, but there’s a reason they have been feeding performers into “just” weightlifting. Many of them take this stuff seriously. I don’t go any more, but one location was a trainer for a wrestling team (very successful) and the more recent location had a part owner who worked with local HS’s and state college, and who also made deals for a couple of the college teams to train at the CF location. Just be careful.

  3. #13
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    I attended a Starting Strength Seminar in early December and met a strength coach from Orange County that created an entire training company and business model by partnering with PTs.

    Essentially, they would refer their clients to him after the clients insurance ran out and they still weren't "fixed". He "fixed" them with basic barbell strength training movements and programming.




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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by joffe View Post
    All squats, by biomechanical definition, are focused on the quads and other anterior thigh muscles, as well as the glutes if you go low enough. The squat is the lower body "push" exercise. Trying to train the hamstrings by doing squats is like trying to train biceps by bench pressing. Whether you do back squats or front squats hardly matters in this regard.
    Please quote a reputable source as to what the "bio-mechanical definition" of a squat is. Please, because everything you said in this quote is horseshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by n517rv View Post
    I attended a Starting Strength Seminar in early December and met a strength coach from Orange County that created an entire training company and business model by partnering with PTs.

    Essentially, they would refer their clients to him after the clients insurance ran out and they still weren't "fixed". He "fixed" them with basic barbell strength training movements and programming.
    On this...I developed what I would self-describe as a high hamstring tendinopathy in my right leg after slipping on ice during a snowy run. I'd also describe myself as a runner before a lifer. After YEARS of trying to nurse this back, the only thing that helped was backing off running and going through the novice progression of Starting Strength.

    That being said, I don't advocate running over lifting but I think there needs to be a shift that looks at running as more of a sport specific thing. If you want to be a runner or enjoy running, then do that. If you hate it, then by God don't.

    I want to read the Barbel Prescription book as I'm 41 now. I read the sample in Kindle and I can tell you the thing about sick aging is spot on.
    Last edited by bp7178; 12-24-19 at 00:55.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    Please quote a reputable source as to what the "bio-mechanical definition" of a squat is.
    I stopped paying attention to what he was saying when he stated barbell back squats are of limited utility only.


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  6. #16
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    On squats on people with back problems...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVx2O6PXb6U

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    Please quote a reputable source as to what the "bio-mechanical definition" of a squat is. Please, because everything you said in this quote is horseshit.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31230110

    The volumes of knee extensor muscles significantly increased by 4.9 ± 2.6% in FST (p < 0.001) and 4.6 ± 3.1% in HST (p = 0.003), whereas that of rectus femoris and hamstring muscles did not change in either group. The volumes of adductor and gluteus maximus muscles significantly increased in FST (6.2 ± 2.6% and 6.7 ± 3.5%) and HST (2.7 ± 3.1% and 2.2 ± 2.6%). In addition, relative increases in adductor (p = 0.026) and gluteus maximus (p = 0.008) muscle volumes were significantly greater in FST than in HST.
    CONCLUSION:

    The results suggest that full squat training is more effective for developing the lower limb muscles excluding the rectus femoris and hamstring muscles.
    The squat is a lower body "push" exercise that focuses on the anterior part of your legs, while lower body "pull" exercises such as deadlifts use the posterior chain, much like bench pressing vs rows. I'm not going to spend Christmas Eve looking for a citation for a "sky is blue" fact, but here's one example of someone stating this fact, if this helps you at all.

    https://mtntactical.com/knowledge/mt...gth-exercises/

    First a definition of lower body “push”: we’re talking about training the anterior or front, part of the lower body – the quads.

    A lower body “pull” exercise trains the posterior chain of the lower body – butt, and hamstrings.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    I stopped paying attention to what he was saying when he stated barbell back squats are of limited utility only.


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    I literally never said that, but okay. Merry Christmas.

  8. #18
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    Thanks for everyone who responded. I'm deployed right now so going to a strength coach or joining a CrossFit gym isn't practical at the moment. I went back to lifting to start prepping for the ACFT after recovering from a surgery (out and back into the theater). We don't have any trap bars here so I figured the squat and deadlift combo would be the way to go. I started with low weight and promptly threw my back out doing squats. I'm in a very low-density MOS so I'm the only person from my unit here. I don't have a battle for my workouts.

    I guess a better question would have been if I have weak hamstrings compared to my quads, how should I balance my quad centric exercises (Front Squat) with hamstring centric exercises (deadlift/swings)? Based on the responses, it doesn't seem like it matters if I'm front squatting or back squatting if they are both quad centric. Should my approach, sets, volume ect be different for the hamstrings vs the quads?

  9. #19
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    I’ve been using good mornings and TRX hamstring curls to work my posterior chain. In terms of programming, I try to match a complex anterior chain exercise (I like step ups with kbs or a sandbag) with one of the 2 moves above. I’ve also begun experimenting with Kang squats.

    I’ve neglected hamstring strength, despite my main sport putting a premium on isometric hamstring strength. I also spend a lot more time on flexibility, range of motion, and mobility.
    The advice above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sndt1319 View Post
    Thanks for everyone who responded. I'm deployed right now so going to a strength coach or joining a CrossFit gym isn't practical at the moment. I went back to lifting to start prepping for the ACFT after recovering from a surgery (out and back into the theater). We don't have any trap bars here so I figured the squat and deadlift combo would be the way to go. I started with low weight and promptly threw my back out doing squats. I'm in a very low-density MOS so I'm the only person from my unit here. I don't have a battle for my workouts.

    I guess a better question would have been if I have weak hamstrings compared to my quads, how should I balance my quad centric exercises (Front Squat) with hamstring centric exercises (deadlift/swings)? Based on the responses, it doesn't seem like it matters if I'm front squatting or back squatting if they are both quad centric. Should my approach, sets, volume ect be different for the hamstrings vs the quads?
    Is there anyone there who’s jacked and looks like they know what they’re doing?

    As to the second it absolutely does matter. There’s no need to try and balance your quad vs posterior centric work if you’re already that far out balance.

    Work on mobility and push your squat stance out as far as possible. I’m talking well beyond shoulder width and focus on glute activation. You should 100% be box squatting. If mobility is an issue work on progressively moving the box height lower and lower. 4” above parallel, then 3, 2, etc. Wider you can get the smaller your ROM. The box allows you to really focus on your posterior as it dominates your quads in the lifts.

    Barbell back squats with a narrower stance will do nothing for you except further your imbalance. Look at this way the Glute is the largest muscle in the body and the most undertrained in most people.

    Heavy deads, sumo deads, RDls, barbell glute bridges, etc. add accessory work to target erectors, core, glutes, hip flexors and hamstrings. A weak core will aggravate back issues.


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