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Thread: Two Primary Arms optics approved for duty use

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Has anyone here used the PA 1x Cyclops on a duty rifle doing interior searches, or at least trained with one indoors with a whitelight? Does the reticle wash as bad as a TA44/45?

    Anybody here have both the PA and Vortex 1x prisms that can offer some comparison?

    As much as I dislike Chinese stuff, these newer optics are getting harder to ignore, especially since I know a few cops that are too cheap to buy an Aimpoint.
    Yes. Not like the TA44 at all.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteryman View Post
    Many of the Japanese branded vehicles are assembled in North America.

    China is capable of higher QC, but the vendor doesn't want it because the consumer is too dumb to demand it.

    The Chinese work ethic is a small percentage of their culture, a large percentage of necessity to stay alive, and an equally large part of being a communist shithole. Same story for the reduced labour costs.

    Apple products are overrated junk.
    Since the entirety of your post seems intended on just arguing some valid points Adrenaline_6 made. I thought I would kindly point out the literal cow fertilizer your post is slathered in. And by slathered I mean like SLATHERED.

    Many of the Japanese branded vehicles are assembled in North America.
    And your point? Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan, Toyota, Honda all produced cars in Japan that were absolutely equal to their North American counterpart, they just didn't have the "Made in Texas by Texans" sticker. I'm not a huge fan of Japanese cars or trucks. I never have been, but I have bought them for my wife and they were quality vehicles. I'm also not a fan of counterpoints that generalize and are mostly crap-ladened.

    "China is capable of higher QC, but the vendor doesn't want it because the consumer is too dumb to demand it."
    So now you're an expert on manufacturing processes?
    Cool. So am I! It's what I get paid to do.
    "The vendor" Wow. I have no idea how many factories are in China, but I am certain of one thing. "The vendor" doesn't even begin to describe all of their (China's) capabilities or processes or the QC that's in place. Seems like a really ignorant thing to say. That's why some American companies have products designed in the US, and own the factory in China where the item or parts are manufactured. That's one way that TODAY they care controlling not only QC, but equally as important they control the raw materials sourced to manufacture their items. PowerTac flashlights fall into that category and they are solid lights. There is more than one optics company today that not only do the design CONUS, but own the factory or at minimum have established their quality standards and tolerances. They've established where raw materials can be sourced from including the glass used. The manufacturer either follows those specs or the manufacturer does not get to manufacture. It's really that simple. I've seen manufacturing processes across this planet and I can tell you that not all factories in China are producing shitty products.
    Another example is Streamlight, which I have used numerous of their products, especially the TLR and also their Protac models and those are made in China. They are not crappy lights by any standard. They have been abused and used and I've never had one fail on me and I'm not remotely nice to them. I don't care much about supporting Chinese manufacturing processes - I really could give 2 craps about it. But your statements are generalized bullcrap, if I can just put it bluntly.
    As far as the consumer being too dumb to demand it. I think the customer was too cheap to care. I think today it's a different story. Consumers want to have better products without having to buy the "Cadillac" Vendors or brand-holders realize that and they also realize that without some controls in place, they will continue to import shit and sell shit. PA is one company that is trying to control that, but they aren't the first. I don't own any PA optics, but what I do like to see is better quality products hitting the market. That benefits all of us without us even jumping onto that bandwagon. It's simple supply chain economics.

    The Chinese work ethic is a small percentage of their culture, a large percentage of necessity to stay alive, and an equally large part of being a communist shithole. Same story for the reduced labour costs.
    Do you work for the LabOUR department of Canada? Just wondering where you are getting all your facts from. But I refer to my 2nd point. Standards and service agreements affect more than just the QA department that inspects the finished good. It impacts everyone's bottom line when 80% (or whatever) of products fail QA/QC and have to be reworked - which is exactly what would happen IF your statement was true. That's why these standards and specs affect the factories down to the worker bee level.

    Apple products are overrated junk.
    Oh another Apple hater! But again, you only pick on the other dude's viable comment. Apple. Samsung. Google. What's the difference? Not a damn thing. Certainly not worth bringing up, unless you want to geek out over some features. So what's your point? I have an Apple, but I'm far from a Crapple as I like to call it fanboy. It's a tool that does what it's supposed to do, even when it falls in the toilet. So junk? Not really. I think my Crapple TV is pretty slick and it does what it's advertised to do and it has never failed. Even when I take it to Brazil - works like a champ. My 5 year old iPad? Junk? Nope, wrong again because it still works. My Android products that are half that age? Now those devices are tits up. BRAVO DELTA. So again, Apple, Samsung, Google and whatever other brand that can be mentioned - they are all pretty much the same thing. I'll give it to Crapple though. They have the market on being overrated and overpriced, but functionality-wise? They are all pretty much the same.

    You would have been better off just saying, "I HATE CHICOM STUFF! IT'S ALL SHIT AND I ONLY BUY 'MERICAN!"
    That I definitely could understand and respect. But all that crap you posted is just that. Crap.
    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may."
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    “The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”
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  3. #63
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    I love Robert's posts.
    98% Sarcastic. 100% Overthinking things and making up reasons for buying a new firearm.

  4. #64
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    Well Mystery man gets almost 3000FPS out of his 12.5" AR-15 with M193, so he's in the know about something...

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Has anyone here used the PA 1x Cyclops on a duty rifle doing interior searches, or at least trained with one indoors with a whitelight? Does the reticle wash as bad as a TA44/45?

    Anybody here have both the PA and Vortex 1x prisms that can offer some comparison?

    As much as I dislike Chinese stuff, these newer optics are getting harder to ignore, especially since I know a few cops that are too cheap to buy an Aimpoint.
    @1168 look into the Swampfox optics Blade for that application. The reticle is much bigger than the cyclops and I imagine would be easier to pickup in that application. It has offsets for 5, 10 and 15 yards as well I believe

    They are a newer company but putting out decent stuff from what I hear. They actually own a Chinese factory and produce everything there so control everything

    Mike (old primary arms rep) is one of their main guys. There is a huge thread in TOS in the optics section with pics of the reticle and info. Should be some info at shot show as well. Coming out this month

    Iyla (dark lord of optics) had some good things to say about scopes he is evaluating but no full review yet

    *Aaron Cowan did a video on their pistol rds and it failed the drop test. This is their cheap reflex similar to the vortex venom. Mike immediately contacted him for constructive criticism and they are coming out with a new model that should be much better

    According to mike they specifically designed the blade for duty use and to be a tough optic law enforcement can buy in a budget. They have a discount program for first responders

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by everready73 View Post
    @1168 look into the Swampfox optics Blade for that application. The reticle is much bigger than the cyclops and I imagine would be easier to pickup in that application. It has offsets for 5, 10 and 15 yards as well I believe

    They are a newer company but putting out decent stuff from what I hear. They actually own a Chinese factory and produce everything there so control everything

    Mike (old primary arms rep) is one of their main guys. There is a huge thread in TOS in the optics section with pics of the reticle and info. Should be some info at shot show as well. Coming out this month

    Iyla (dark lord of optics) had some good things to say about scopes he is evaluating but no full review yet

    *Aaron Cowan did a video on their pistol rds and it failed the drop test. This is their cheap reflex similar to the vortex venom. Mike immediately contacted him for constructive criticism and they are coming out with a new model that should be much better

    According to mike they specifically designed the blade for duty use and to be a tough optic law enforcement can buy in a budget. They have a discount program for first responders
    Interesting. Thanks.

    Edit: I don’t see the Blade on their website.
    Last edited by 1168; 01-16-20 at 05:23.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Interesting. Thanks.

    Edit: I don’t see the Blade on their website.
    Probably won't be until shot. If you venture to TOS there is a 25 page thread were like posted a bunch of info and pics. Under ar15 section then optics.

    I am assuming a lot more marketing stuff is coming on their website soon. Check insta and Facebook as well if you have. I think it is worth looking into for your application

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertTheTexan View Post
    Since the entirety of your post seems intended on just arguing some valid points Adrenaline_6 made. I thought I would kindly point out the literal cow fertilizer your post is slathered in. And by slathered I mean like SLATHERED.

    Many of the Japanese branded vehicles are assembled in North America.
    And your point? Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan, Toyota, Honda all produced cars in Japan that were absolutely equal to their North American counterpart, they just didn't have the "Made in Texas by Texans" sticker. I'm not a huge fan of Japanese cars or trucks. I never have been, but I have bought them for my wife and they were quality vehicles. I'm also not a fan of counterpoints that generalize and are mostly crap-ladened.

    So now you're an expert on manufacturing processes?
    Cool. So am I! It's what I get paid to do.
    "The vendor" Wow. I have no idea how many factories are in China, but I am certain of one thing. "The vendor" doesn't even begin to describe all of their (China's) capabilities or processes or the QC that's in place. Seems like a really ignorant thing to say. That's why some American companies have products designed in the US, and own the factory in China where the item or parts are manufactured. That's one way that TODAY they care controlling not only QC, but equally as important they control the raw materials sourced to manufacture their items. PowerTac flashlights fall into that category and they are solid lights. There is more than one optics company today that not only do the design CONUS, but own the factory or at minimum have established their quality standards and tolerances. They've established where raw materials can be sourced from including the glass used. The manufacturer either follows those specs or the manufacturer does not get to manufacture. It's really that simple. I've seen manufacturing processes across this planet and I can tell you that not all factories in China are producing shitty products.
    Another example is Streamlight, which I have used numerous of their products, especially the TLR and also their Protac models and those are made in China. They are not crappy lights by any standard. They have been abused and used and I've never had one fail on me and I'm not remotely nice to them. I don't care much about supporting Chinese manufacturing processes - I really could give 2 craps about it. But your statements are generalized bullcrap, if I can just put it bluntly.
    As far as the consumer being too dumb to demand it. I think the customer was too cheap to care. I think today it's a different story. Consumers want to have better products without having to buy the "Cadillac" Vendors or brand-holders realize that and they also realize that without some controls in place, they will continue to import shit and sell shit. PA is one company that is trying to control that, but they aren't the first. I don't own any PA optics, but what I do like to see is better quality products hitting the market. That benefits all of us without us even jumping onto that bandwagon. It's simple supply chain economics.


    Do you work for the LabOUR department of Canada? Just wondering where you are getting all your facts from. But I refer to my 2nd point. Standards and service agreements affect more than just the QA department that inspects the finished good. It impacts everyone's bottom line when 80% (or whatever) of products fail QA/QC and have to be reworked - which is exactly what would happen IF your statement was true. That's why these standards and specs affect the factories down to the worker bee level.


    Oh another Apple hater! But again, you only pick on the other dude's viable comment. Apple. Samsung. Google. What's the difference? Not a damn thing. Certainly not worth bringing up, unless you want to geek out over some features. So what's your point? I have an Apple, but I'm far from a Crapple as I like to call it fanboy. It's a tool that does what it's supposed to do, even when it falls in the toilet. So junk? Not really. I think my Crapple TV is pretty slick and it does what it's advertised to do and it has never failed. Even when I take it to Brazil - works like a champ. My 5 year old iPad? Junk? Nope, wrong again because it still works. My Android products that are half that age? Now those devices are tits up. BRAVO DELTA. So again, Apple, Samsung, Google and whatever other brand that can be mentioned - they are all pretty much the same thing. I'll give it to Crapple though. They have the market on being overrated and overpriced, but functionality-wise? They are all pretty much the same.

    You would have been better off just saying, "I HATE CHICOM STUFF! IT'S ALL SHIT AND I ONLY BUY 'MERICAN!"
    That I definitely could understand and respect. But all that crap you posted is just that. Crap.
    Maybe you should read my post again, and really try to comprehend what I am saying.

    For starters I said nothing about Japanese products. Yes, I'm very aware that many Japanese brands are in fact assembled in North America, I drive two of them. They are quality and I would wager they are far better designed and built than any domestic brand. Many domestic models aren't manufactured in North America. I dislike Chinese goods because they're usually junk, China is killing industry across the globe with cheap labour, and they treat their people and the environment like shit. I don't exclusively buy American either.

    As for manufacturing, I stated exactly what you stated. China produces crap, but are VERY capable of producing quality products as well. Unfortunately the vendors and/or the customers do not wish to see such quality, either through ignorance or simply because they're cheap. Labour costs are far less in China, but even their quality products cost more to make and are reflected in the price of the finished goods. Why do you think companies source their manufacturing offshore? Cheaper labour means higher margins. Unfortunately it also means killing US jobs or jobs elsewhere in the world where working standards are higher. You can attribute that trend to either greedy execs, or the reality that high priced goods don't sell as well as cheap goods. I call it the Walmart syndrome. You know what you're buying is cheap junk, but it's cheap, and cheap has been promoted as a desirable trait when shopping for nearly anything. The flip side is the belief that anything expensive or "major brand" is over priced and you're simply paying for the name. I don't disagree that a significant portion of brand names goods are simply average quality with inflated pricing. There is however still a lot of truth to "you get what you pay for". What consumers need to do is find the balance between over priced brand names goods and cheap garbage products.

    Again, I think we are saying the same thing when it comes to Apple. Yes their products do the same thing as other brands. Apple is one of those over hyped average quality brands that people get sucked into buying due to effective marketing. You may say your Apple products are still working years later as opposed to your other branded products. I will say the opposite. My Samsung tablet is 7 years old and works just fine. I also have an 11 year old Macbook that still works. My concern with Apple is two fold. They're a shit bag socialist company for starters, and they over hype their products, change very little from model year to model year then proclaim how amazing they and their products are. Apple is the king of proprietary plugs, accessories etc as well. A rather annoying "buy my products only" mentality.

  9. #69
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    @1168

    Here is done more info on the Blade I mentioned above.

    https://gatdaily.com/swampfox-blade/

    Obviously not out quite yet but interesting concept and I think it will be better or right there with the cyclops durability wise.

    The reticle makes more sense for cqb

  10. #70
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    I bought a Cyclops and a Sig Romeo 5 around the same time. The Cyclops was alright, but when I took it around town and tried to look at things I realized it was not as great as I'd thought. It had a subtle problem with resolution; I could read signs with the Cyclops that I could also see with my naked eye, except for the furthest ones. When I realized I would rather have a good set of irons that co witnessed with the Romeo 5 or another dot optic I sent the Cyclops back. Also it had a non standard height Aimpoint micro mount. I'm guessing a Larue micro mount for Hk416 would be an aftermarket mount that would put the Cyclops at the correct height.
    Last edited by TheJawn; 02-10-20 at 01:52.

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