Two Primary Arms optics approved for duty use

[RHINOWSO]

Yeah that's right, some of the top trainers in the country are running tactical training classes, and posting publicly about running these sights on their rifles, knowing they are not reliable enough to recommend to their students, but they don't care.

Gonna call bullshit on that. We have public comments like the one below by DeFoor about the PA LPV optics, to the contrary.

Easy nellie, don't get so worked up - I was just pointing out they are using them in training, not while kicking in doors.

Would be interesting to see their choices then.

[Biggy]

Here is a review of a China made RDS.
You may need to turn on English captions to understand what the guy is saying.

https://youtu.be/-MVlcJLz1-Q

[Adrenaline_6]

First it was cars - "Americuh! - Japanese crap!" Now look where we are.

Now its the Chinese. Sure - their QC is lacking on the low end stuff, it's why some crap is so cheap, but that is what companies like PA, etc. have started to change. They pay for the higher QC and set their standards on the outsourced work. If the standards aren't met, the manufacturer doesn't get paid..pretty simple. They are human beings just like us (actually their population as a whole might have a better work ethic than our country overall, but that is a different discussion altogether) so if standards are set, they can be met, and due to lower labor rates, do it at a cheaper price. It's simple economics and logic.

I see the same bs with flashlights, knives, etc. It's naive to think they can't make a quality product. Your Apple products are proof of that nonsense. It's just that until lately, no one was really setting the "rules" for QC, so the cheapy stuff was the easy money makers for them. Now, they see the other opportunities in the QC market just like Japan did with cars awhile back.

You will always have your loyalists to certain brands and that is totally fine...and if it works for those people...awesome. But to naysay, just to naysay because...is borderline stupid and will fade away and be looked at as stupid just like Japanese cars are now.

[Mysteryman]

First it was cars - "Americuh! - Japanese crap!" Now look where we are.

Now its the Chinese. Sure - their QC is lacking on the low end stuff, it's why some crap is so cheap, but that is what companies like PA, etc. have started to change. They pay for the higher QC and set their standards on the outsourced work. If the standards aren't met, the manufacturer doesn't get paid..pretty simple. They are human beings just like us (actually their population as a whole might have a better work ethic than our country overall, but that is a different discussion altogether) so if standards are set, they can be met, and due to lower labor rates, do it at a cheaper price. It's simple economics and logic.

I see the same bs with flashlights, knives, etc. It's naive to think they can't make a quality product. Your Apple products are proof of that nonsense. It's just that until lately, no one was really setting the "rules" for QC, so the cheapy stuff was the easy money makers for them. Now, they see the other opportunities in the QC market just like Japan did with cars awhile back.

You will always have your loyalists to certain brands and that is totally fine...and if it works for those people...awesome. But to naysay, just to naysay because...is borderline stupid and will fade away and be looked at as stupid just like Japanese cars are now.

Many of the Japanese branded vehicles are assembled in North America.

China is capable of higher QC, but the vendor doesn't want it because the consumer is too dumb to demand it.

The Chinese work ethic is a small percentage of their culture, a large percentage of necessity to stay alive, and an equally large part of being a communist shithole. Same story for the reduced labour costs.

Apple products are overrated junk.

[Adrenaline_6]

Many of the Japanese branded vehicles are assembled in North America.

China is capable of higher QC, but the vendor doesn't want it because the consumer is too dumb to demand it.

The Chinese work ethic is a small percentage of their culture, a large percentage of necessity to stay alive, and an equally large part of being a communist shithole. Same story for the reduced labour costs.

Apple products are overrated junk.

Your not actually implying that the Japanese branded vehicles are only good because they are now made in America are you, because that would be simply a hilarious statement. The US actually went over to Japan and studied how they did things there so they could catch up.

The consumer is now demanding it, that is why companies like PA and Holosun are coming out with better products. True, some consumers are too dumb and just want cheap, but many want better quality and cheap which is achievable.

Guess what the large percentage of the population that wants to stay alive is willing to do?

I am definitely not an Apple person, but calling them overrated junk would be like calling Glock overrated junk. It is popular, it works well, it has a large following and has great support - and I don't like Glocks either btw, but I wouldn't call them overrated junk because they don't work for me.

[grizzlyblake]

So Defoor has been running the Vortex Crossfire Gen 2 for some time now, transporting it from class to class around the US in his Harley saddlebags. He hasn't posted anything negative. I realize Vortex is probably giving him all their stuff for free now, but he tends to pull no punches with gear reviews.

I picked one up for $150 or whatever it was and the reality is that I cannot distinguish it from my T2 other than the slight aesthetic differences.

Is anyone else running one?

[opngrnd]

So Defoor has been running the Vortex Crossfire Gen 2 for some time now, transporting it from class to class around the US in his Harley saddlebags. He hasn't posted anything negative. I realize Vortex is probably giving him all their stuff for free now, but he tends to pull no punches with gear reviews.

I picked one up for $150 or whatever it was and the reality is that I cannot distinguish it from my T2 other than the slight aesthetic differences.

Is anyone else running one?

I'm going to throw one on a beater.

[1168]

Has anyone here used the PA 1x Cyclops on a duty rifle doing interior searches, or at least trained with one indoors with a whitelight? Does the reticle wash as bad as a TA44/45?

Anybody here have both the PA and Vortex 1x prisms that can offer some comparison?

As much as I dislike Chinese stuff, these newer optics are getting harder to ignore, especially since I know a few cops that are too cheap to buy an Aimpoint.

[jsbhike]

A lot of Japanese QC came from:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

To a large extent, Japanese products that were proclaimed as junk were actually quite good going way back.

Chinese stuff, not so much. Something I have noticed with most Chinese stuff resold by US companies (Vortex and Primary Arms seem to be exceptions) is as the quality level begins to approach that of Euro/US items, so does the price it is sold for here.

[Pappabear]

I think the cheapest - best low end optic is the Sig T1 knock off. For $125, it impressed the sht out of me. What impressed me is it takes T1-2 mounts. But more importantly, the graduation of light is spot on. Vs going from not enough RDS to starburst.

I still have multiple Aimpoints and other high end glass on my guns, but when you have your GOTO GUNS covered, nothing wrong with a nice little Sig RDS to solve your RDS need.

I have a PA, that I got with an Arsenal AK I bought. Never tested SXS, but I hear it’s decent too. Worked on my AK.

PB