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Thread: LMT ENHANCED CARRIER, EARLY UNLOCKING?

  1. #1
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    LMT ENHANCED CARRIER, EARLY UNLOCKING?

    Hey guys,

    Short and sweet.

    Ive got a 13.7 inch, midlength gas build that I just put together. Ive had an LMT enhanced carrier sitting around that I originally ordered for a BRT barrel that never materialized. I decided to slap that in there and head to the range.

    The gun functioned 100% but brass ejection was erratic. It would eject a round or two to 4 o'clock then randomly throw one or two casings to 1 o'clock. Again, the gun functioned well but the erratic nature of the brass ejection caused me some concern.

    I swapped in a normal, full auto M16 carrier and the brass ejection pattern changed to a 100% consistent 4 o'clock ejection.

    Thoughts on this guys? I "feel" like the gun shot softer with the LMT carrier but that could be all in my head. Obviously I'm chasing feel AND function with this build so id like the softest shooting, most reliable carbine possible.
    You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...

  2. #2
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    Try the LMT carrier with the bolt from the full auto carrier. The erratic ejection pattern is likely due to a weak extractor spring or a weak extractor spring combined with a weak ejector spring. If the LMT carrier has an LMT enhanced bolt, there's a good chance the extractor springs are weak. I have an early LMT e-bolt that had weak extractor springs (the bolt uses dual springs) and wouldn't properly eject. A weak extractor spring means the extractor won't hold the case against the bolt face and compress the ejector.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Try the LMT carrier with the bolt from the full auto carrier. The erratic ejection pattern is likely due to a weak extractor spring or a weak extractor spring combined with a weak ejector spring. If the LMT carrier has an LMT enhanced bolt, there's a good chance the extractor springs are weak. I have an early LMT e-bolt that had weak extractor springs (the bolt uses dual springs) and wouldn't properly eject. A weak extractor spring means the extractor won't hold the case against the bolt face and compress the ejector.
    Im tracking.

    IF this is the case, does anyone say, Wolf, make a stronger extractor spring? Are the dual extractor springs simply milspec springs or are they proprietary? I haven't taken it apart to look as im on duty for a few more days so I figured I would ask here.
    You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...

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    I don't think anyone outside of LMT really knows exactly how they're made, but it's speculated they might be made from cut down ejector springs. The width is identical as I recall.

    Tubb makes an extra power ejector spring, but it's made out of chrome silicon. If you cut them, the improvised extractor springs will be uncoated on the ends, which isn't really great so far as corrosion is concerned. I've heard people have had success with just creating new dual springs from a normal stainless ejector spring.

    Alternatively, you could try just buying a few sets of enhanced extractor springs from LMT and finding a pair that gives the desired extractor tension.

  5. #5
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    I posted this pic a while back.
    Top:Ejector/Safety Select Spring
    Middle:LMT Dual extractor springs
    Bottom:Takedown/Pivot springs

    Last edited by sig1473; 01-06-20 at 14:04.

  6. #6
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    I have a had a few reliability issues with LMT enhanced bolts. Never them braking.

    But... I have had ejection/extraction issues that were fixed with new extractor springs and a new extractor. The extractor looked good, I replaced as a course of action.

    one was on a bolt with 6000+ rounds on it, idk it I didn't track it. I have a bad habit of not tracking round counts on ware parts like springs and often don't replace then until the cause malfunctions. I should be better, I'm not.

    The other was a brand new bolt and barrel, again I replaced both, idk if it was springs or extractor. This one had more extraction issue than anything, it was probably a bad extractor from the factory.

    LMT bolts are awesome, but need the springs and probably extractor replaced every 5000 rounds I'd guess.

    Are KAC springs the same dimensions as the LMT?

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    With all the craziness in my life lately, haven't had a chance to follow up with this suggestion that member Vulcan5 PMed me awhile back. It sounds like a good solution to the ebolt extraction issue-

    MistWolf,

    Apologies, I just saw this..............

    I exclusively run LMT 5.56 enhanced bolts, the old ones....................

    You can cure the *extraction* problems by using the 6.8 enhanced bolt extractor springs listed on the LWRCI website. These are the only compatible springs listed that will work, as LWRCI no longer makes their 5.56 enhanced bolts which were made under license from LMT anyway.

    The LWRCI 6.8 extractor springs are a little longer and stiffer than the LMT replacement springs and the LWRCI springs are buffered as they have viton rubber inserts inside them. I use them all the time with no issues, but a little PITA to re-install the extractor pin in the bolt due to more spring pressure.

    You may want to also examine the type of roll pin LMT used to secure the ejector. I am sure you know there are 2 types, listed as long and short. ALL of mine came with the short pin which IMHO is a NO-GO.

    RARELY, but possible, depending on the install the short pin can interfere with ejector movement and sometimes even lock the ejector to the rear, ask me how I know! Therefore I have replaced all my ejector roll pins with the long ones. Try to get the open part of the roll pin opposite of the bearing surface it comes in contact with on the ejector.

    Hope this helps.

    Vulcan5
    Last edited by MistWolf; 01-06-20 at 22:50.
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    To be honest this seems like an overkill for a very expensive bolt which should work thousands, if not 10's of thousands of rounds out of the box. The more reviews and experiences I read about LMT enhanced bolt and BCG the more i'm inclined to think it's not a duty grade product. If I'm not mistaken LMT does not use them in any of their rifles out of the factory.

    Inconsistent ejection, extraction, bcg running fast or slow depending on barrel length/port size/buffer weight/etc. Proprietary springs which have issues either out of the box or after a few K rounds, etc. I'm not sure if they are addressing any actual problem with it (vs a milspec bolt) or just selling it based on a marketing alone. Even if they are addressing some of deficiencies in theory, execution seems far from proper for a Tier-1 company.

    Compared to a number of BCM/Colt/DD BCGs/Bolts out there vs LMT enhanced it seems like issues constantly come up with LMT even in number count (in percentage terms that would be a few orders of magnitude more). Or is it just seems to me that way?

  9. #9
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    Couple thoughts on the bolt issues.

    The bolts really do seem to last a long time before catistoohic failure. Mil spec bolts not so much.

    I think part of what we are seeing is where a mil spec bolt may have need totally dead, the LMT bolt just wore its ware items and needs a refresh. Realistically the action spring should be replaced every 5000 rounds, why not the ejector and ejector springs at the same time? Do people buy LMT bolts expecting it go forever and not ever ware a spring? Maybe

    Secondly maybe they are finicky in ways. Obviously the extractor spring is the weakest part. But, if the above posted quote is correct about LWRCI 5.56 advanced bolt being a licensed LMT, something to consider is the trouble LWRCi had producing them.

    The story is the bolts had reliability issues, not from breakage but malfunctions. The issue was tolerances. Their quite good Japanese CNC machine was not accuarate enough to make them to the necessary tolerences. LWRCi eventually gave up. Could LMT bolts be difficult to produce and cause malfunctions if not? Maybe, but it seems all issues are in the extractor and it’s springs. Not the bolt body.

  10. #10
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    Just to clarify, the rifle extracts and ejects, its just horribly erratic.

    In MY particular instance, I think that Mistwolf is on track with the extractor and ejector springs being weak. Thus far, the bolt is not wearing prematurely but it also only has 250 rounds on it so IF It were wearing id be seriously concerned.

    Its going to be a bit before I can make it to the range but ill try a milspec bolt in the LMT carrier.
    You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...

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