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Thread: LMT ENHANCED CARRIER, EARLY UNLOCKING?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquetard View Post
    This reminds me of when I shot my MRP with a 14.5 carbine length and got seemingly normal ejection, then tried a 16" middy and it was throwing Wolf at 2:30 when the 14.5 had the same throw with m193 (used the same bcg). Is there really any point to having a mid-length as opposed to carbine, if the midlength is more open? The 14.5 would barely cycle steelcase
    I'm not an expert in AR gas system function, so this is just my basic understanding:

    If a carbine length and mid length have the same ejection pattern, the mid length is actually receiving less gas. The bolt is moving at similar speeds because the extraction process with the midlength robs less energy; therefore, less of the force from the gas is used on just unlocking the bolt and pulling the casing out, and more of it can be used to accelerate the carrier.

    If you give them both an equal amount of gas, then the midlength's BCG may travel faster. However, you still see decreased stresses and strains during extraction with the mid, so the recoil would probably not be worse. On the upside, you reduce bolt wear during unlocking (which I imagine is more severe than the wear when it locks and goes into battery faster) and increase reliability.

    So, in your case, the 16" mid and 14.5" could have been receiving similar amounts of gas with correspondingly similar recoil, but the difference is that the mid would reliably cycle a wider range of ammo under worse conditions.

    In effect, a midlength might achieve the same reliability with less recoil, or moderately improved reliability with slightly less recoil, or significantly better reliability with the same recoil. (Up to a point anyway, at some level you run into reliability problems from excessive carrier speed but this requires some rather severe overgassing to my knowledge.)
    Last edited by LimeSpoon; 02-15-20 at 04:47.

  2. #32
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    People talk reliability like it's a fact. It's academic at best.

    I've been shooting mids for over a decade, and carbines, 16" carbines mostly, for 20 years and over my bazillion rounds I've never been able to deduce any reliability difference between the two.

    The few problems I've had have magazine and gas tube/BCG related.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquetard View Post
    This reminds me of when I shot my MRP with a 14.5 carbine length and got seemingly normal ejection, then tried a 16" middy and it was throwing Wolf at 2:30 when the 14.5 had the same throw with m193 (used the same bcg). Is there really any point to having a mid-length as opposed to carbine, if the midlength is more open? The 14.5 would barely cycle steelcase
    Ejection pattern is influenced by too many variables to give any useful information.

    Quote Originally Posted by 17K View Post
    This is a question I've really been asking lately. Like the last 6-7 years.

    I've been shooting my Colts alongside some of the best mids and even a couple of intermediates and I'm not seeing the soft shooting like what the original mids did 10+ years ago.

    In fact, my 6920s are softer than most.
    Buffers play a large role in how recoil feels. The recoil of a properly gassed middy with a carbine weight buffer will have harsher recoil than a carbine gassed AR with an H2 buffer.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Buffers play a large role in how recoil feels. The recoil of a properly gassed middy with a carbine weight buffer will have harsher recoil than a carbine gassed AR with an H2 buffer.

    No. The lighter the reciprocating mass, the lighter the recoil.

    All the heavy buffer stuff being smoother/lighter is only applicable to severely overgassed barrels. Which are apparently en vogue here these days.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17K View Post
    No. The lighter the reciprocating mass, the lighter the recoil.

    All the heavy buffer stuff being smoother/lighter is only applicable to severely overgassed barrels. Which are apparently en vogue here these days.
    Negative. The lighter the reciprocating mass, the less recoil transferred to that mass, assuming the same speeds.

    Do not make the mistake of equating harsher recoil with more recoil or softer recoil with less recoil. During testing of carbine, H & H2 buffers, I found the carbine buffer to have sharper felt recoil than the H buffer and the H buffer gave sharper felt recoil than the H2. I assume this is the result of quicker acceleration/deceleration of the lighter reciprocating mass.

    I would like to point out that during these tests it took the same amount of gas for full function with the carbine buffer as it did with the H2 buffer.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-20-20 at 17:18.
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  6. #36
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    You started out comparing a properly gassed mid/Car buffer to a carbine/H2 and said the mid would be harsher.

    It wouldn't because the carrier speed would presumably be slower with less weight than the carbine.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17K View Post
    You started out comparing a properly gassed mid/Car buffer to a carbine/H2 and said the mid would be harsher.

    It wouldn't because the carrier speed would presumably be slower with less weight than the carbine.
    My 16 inch middy with a carbine weight buffer had harsher recoil than my 14.5 carbine gas with an H2 buffer. I assume it's because the lighter mass accelerates quicker, just like lightening a car lets it accelerate quicker.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-20-20 at 20:07.
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  8. #38
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    That's a product of the gas port.

    If your barrel wasn't pushing the BCG so hard it would absolutely be softer with a carbine vs a heavier buffer.

  9. #39
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    Double tap
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-20-20 at 22:47.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17K View Post
    That's a product of the gas port.

    If your barrel wasn't pushing the BCG so hard it would absolutely be softer with a carbine vs a heavier buffer.
    I will say this for the last time- Testing a properly gassed AR shows it has softer recoil using an H2 buffer than it does using a carbine buffer.

    Testing an over-gassed AR shows it has softer recoil using an H2 buffer than it does using a carbine buffer.

    Regardless of gas system length.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-20-20 at 22:51.
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