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Thread: French Army goes Glock...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    French arms fought valiantly for centuries. They pounded the poor germans almost at will. They didn't win them all, e.g. losing to the Spanish in the Italian Wars. But the revolutionary armies and Napoleon were the first example of the modern nation in arms.

    Modern French "surrender " reputation rests on the Franco-German War of 1870 and WW2. In both the French fought but were quickly defeated.

    They also lost in Vietnam (but then, so did the US) and Algeria, two post colonial guerrilla actions.
    I agree with this, mostly. The French military do not deserve all this disrespect. And I have been impressed with French SOF that I have encountered in modern times, who’ve been putting in work.

    But, people who know nothing about them insist on perpetuating bullshit. Its like getting an unsolicited history lesson at a gun store counter.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I agree with this, mostly. The French military do not deserve all this disrespect. And I have been impressed with French SOF that I have encountered in modern times, who’ve been putting in work.

    But, people who know nothing about them insist on perpetuating bullshit. Its like getting an unsolicited history lesson at a gun store counter.
    I suspect the disrespect comes in part from the reputation of the French as considering themselves superior to everyone else and the reputation for being generally pompous. I think that's why their often the target of such comments vs historical military fact per se.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I suspect the disrespect comes in part from the reputation of the French as considering themselves superior to everyone else and the reputation for being generally pompous. I think that's why their often the target of such comments vs historical military fact per se.
    I hold different views toward France as a whole (particularly civilian Parisians) compared to their Army. But not necessarily the blind disdain that is common. Same for Britain. I’m not a fan of British laws, and my impressions from interactions with civilians there (especially London, see a pattern; anybody here fond of DC?) have ranged from meh to disgusting. Not impressed, culturally. But, the opposite applies to my interactions with their troops. Good dudes, at least in my experience.

    Among European armies, I would not dismiss the French. I would have no qualms working with them again.

    Edit: The point I am trying to make is that just because there is a stereotype for the French public, or whatever, does not mean their military is made up of Saudis.
    Last edited by 1168; 01-08-20 at 10:26.

  4. #24
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    Getting the thread back on track, I wonder why the 17 specifically? Why not the 19X like they submitted for the US pistol trials?

    Not dogging the 17 at all.
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

  5. #25
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    Any word on what gen 17?


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    I can not confirm, but the pic i saw looked like a GEN5 with a threaded mag and lanyard.

  7. #27
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    I wonder if this will translate to surplus SP2009/2022s.

    They are actually not bad little guns and I’m not a sig person. If I were to buy a normal sig it’d be a 229

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    And in Algeria, they won militarily, through some absolutely brutal counter-insurgency work. It was their political structure that failed them, not the military. Since then, they've also smacked down Islamists in Mali, and by all accounts, done a better job of it than we have in our sandbox forays.

    "Surrendering France" jokes need to die already. They aren't funny, and they aren't historically accurate. They're as bad as the bubba comments you'll hear at a gun show or gun store.
    Very true. In general, generalisms are a bad idea.

    Confusing the acts of politicians or even generals from 100 years ago with their modern army.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I suspect the disrespect comes in part from the reputation of the French as considering themselves superior to everyone else and the reputation for being generally pompous. I think that's why their often the target of such comments vs historical military fact per se.
    And this is our mistake... American impressions of the French are largely due to Parisians. For sure the stereotypes are.

    It's as ignorant as basing the definition of an American on someone from NYC or Newark.

    Per french that I know and work with, have worked with... Parisians don't think they are better than the US, they think they are better than everyone. Same imperious arrogance that New Yorkers have. Or LA, or SF. Probably more of a big city thing.

    France is fairly large, with very distinct regional cultures. Different dialects, food, mannerisms.

    So in many aspects with our biases, we are confirming the Parisian perception that we are ignorant, poorly traveled, and arrogant, blind to our faults.

    The French in general don't hate the US even if they disagree with our various politics. It's more we are the sibling with unrealized potential. Or the unpolished redneck uncle at the family dinner.

    I also understand some of their concerns about cultural imperialism and it's impacts. I used to think this was just liberal thinking, but having spent more time in France and Italy I see it's really a concern about local businesses, shops, quality of food, etc. Is it really a good thing if McDonald's or Walmart displaces local businesses? if one restaurant open 7 days a week, then the other restaurants have to. So now the family restaurant has to take on more employees to cover it where before it was just Mom and Pop and their unmarried daughter. I see some of the logic and its impacts. I also see the lines of French at McDonald's and Burger Kings and have eaten there in-country myself at times because it was convenient basic consistent food.

    I'm not a France apologist. Like visiting but have no desire to live there as a citizen. But I've also been in France, Italy and Germany enough and long enough that I recognize if there are some things that they figured out that we might have missed. And vice versa. And that we are guilty of many of the same stereotypes we apply to them.

    Parisians are the New Yorkers of France!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    I wonder if this will translate to surplus SP2009/2022s.
    The French have a tendency of sending their surplus small arms as military aid to the governments of their former colonial possessions, so I wouldn't count on it.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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  10. #30
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    Heaven forbid we talk about about technical things in a technical forum.

    The Glock doesn’t seem to have too much recent competition in the European Union besides the also-ran HK pistols. The SIG P320 is not fooling many folks as being anything but a US gun. I also expect there was a desire to spread the wealth of firearm contracts around - HK for the 416, FN Herstal for the SCAR-H and then Glock/Austria for moderately sized pistol order. The downside is the obvious fact France no longer has a small arms industry.

    As for the ill informed surrender statements.... The French have a set of political rules that put the US of A to shame, asthey often play for keeps. The classic was the Rainbow Warrior. The French grew tired of Greenpeace dogging their South Seas nuclear testing, so they sank the boat... And killed a crew member. That type of very serious message is similar to what has kicked off the present Iranian situation and not something that usually happens in the US.

    C4DC429C-C65F-4437-9766-38D4A703EC42.jpg

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