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Thread: HFCS vs other sugar

  1. #1
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    HFCS vs other sugar

    Yesterday I had a Doctor preaching the evils of high fructose corn syrup to my son. She made NO point of reducing overall sugar as the goal, just HFCS. I didn't want to start an argument with her in front of my son so I didn't ask for the source.

    I did a pretty deep dive into HFCS maybe ten years ago, did a quick search for something different this morning, but before I get more upset is there some new studies I missed?

    I am completely uninterested in feelings about "natural", "unprocessed", and such.

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    My wife is the household nutrition expert, not me, but she ranks sugar as bad, and HFCS as worse. Cutting back (to the point of almost completely cutting it out of her diet) helped her lose a lot of weight, and improve her overall health, and I've noticed benefits as well, though I still partake more than I should. YMMV, but if you can cut 'em back, I'd say go for it.
    It's f*****g great, putting holes in people, all the time, and it just puts 'em down mate, they drop like sacks of s**t when they go down with this.
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    I have an agriculture degree from a major university and this was something which was discussed in some depth.

    The short answer is that sugar is sugar and calories are calories. HFCS (ie: corn sugar) is still sugar. 100 calories derived from corn sugar is still just 100 calories. Cane sugar, beet sugar, or even coconut sugar all contain calories that are devoid of nutritional content. If your goal is weight loss avoiding sugars would be of major benefit. Avoiding corn sugar in particular could be extremely helpful because of how prevalent it is. It is in almost everything, so avoiding it means you are avoiding many unhealthy foods.

    The more complicated answer is that sugars have a profile to them: Glucose VS Fructose (Sucrose is a combination of both). While both contain the same number of calories fructose tends to have a sweeter profile to it. The sweet flavor is what causes your body to produce insulin. having a diet that is higher in fructose vs glucose *MAY* contribute to insulin resistance which is actually very bad.

    With that being said, artificial sweeteners are even worse than corn sugar. They still cause your body to produce insulin and then have no sugar for the insulin to be working with. This is very likely to lead to lead to insulin resistance. When presented the choice of a soft drink; one containing cane sugar, one containing beet sugar, one containing corn sugar, or one containing an artificial sweetener it is important to realize that they are all bad for you. The one containing real sugar is probably the least bad for you, but it is still bad. Drinks containing artificial sweeteners are FAR worse for you though.

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    It's been a while since I've read any of the literature of this stuff, but from what I can remember, the general argument against HFCS seems to be that, while essentially every cell in your body can use glucose, the same isn't true for fructose.

    Fructose must be processed by the liver. And at times, especially when there is an excess of energy in the diet, fructose is converted by the liver into lipid. This fat can build up within the liver tissue, causing a condition similar to the fatty liver that affects alcoholics, and when severe enough can transition into inflammation and eventually scarring of the liver. Further, high fructose intake seems to increase levels of triglycerides and LDL in the blood, something that can be a problem, especially if a person is already suffering from inflammation. I've also seen it suggested that high fructose diets may also contribute to the accumulation of visceral and abdominal fat, and to insulin resistance.

    The issue isn't fructose consumption itself, as humans have been consuming fructose for as long as we've been eating fruits and vegetables. It's the massively high levels some of us consume these days, as much as 5-6 times what Americans were eating as recently as the early 1900s.

    And obviously avoiding processed sugar in general is also idea good, and it seems like she would've mentioned that as well. But then I'm not an MD and don't know how much nutrition training most docs get, or how often they update that part of their knowledge base.

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    Regular sugar is sucrose, 50/50 glucose and fructose. HFCS is 42 or 55 percent fructose.

    The type of HFCS used, plus the need to adjust the amount used vs sugar for each to taste equally sweet leads me to...

    I don't think you can expect to change the amount of fructose vs glucose you consume by avoiding HFCS for "real" sugar.

    Sucrose is chemically bonded glucose and fructose, that's why it is always 50/50. The bond is broken down by acid and enzymes into glucose and fructose before it is absorbed into the blood. This happens quite quickly in the stomach, but that time seems to be the only possibility of any difference to health. Maybe that small time difference matters in the liver, but I can't find anything.

    Once broken down, glucose is glucose and fructose is fructose, regardless of whether it was processed by humans, bees, or an apple tree.
    Last edited by Todd.K; 01-10-20 at 13:34.

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    HFCS is worse from a societal standpoint, but not from a nutritional standpoint.

    The problem with HFCS in America is that corn subsidies causes it to be artificially cheap, which in turn has led to food manufacturers adding it to every single product they can to make them more palatable.

    However, apples to apples, it is not worse than sugar. It *sounds* worse because it has "high" fructose in the name, but that is "high" relative to normal corn syrup. The reason they process the corn syrup to turn it into "high fructose" corn syrup in the first place is to bring it closer to the fructose/glucose ratio of sugar, in order to be a closer replacement for that product.

    The bottom line is that both sugar and corn syrup are absolutely horrible for you and serve no nutritional need.
    Last edited by joffe; 01-11-20 at 10:45.

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    While they are both delicious neither are worth a shit for you.

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    As far as I'm aware sugar is sugar. If you consume more calories than you "burn", you're probably going to gain weight. I don't buy into the sh!t these (keto, carnivore, etc.) zealots are pushing about carbs and sugar being responsible for all ills. The evidence just isn't there. I'm not saying keto doesn't work, or isn't viable for some. I just don't think carbs should be demonized. However, I presume that HFCS may have some affect on inhibiting satiety, and causing some to consume more than they should...
    Last edited by scooter22; 01-15-20 at 17:15.

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    Some good info.

    Glucose is what your cells use. Everything (sugar/carbohydrates) else is a chain of glucose molecules that must be broken down by an enzyme produced by your body. Your body produces a finite amount of enzymes. Sugars (carbohydrates) not broken down and used by your body will pass through your intestines and become food for bacteria in your gut. Too much extra "food" and your "gut" becomes a fermentor for these bacteria, i.e. they are overpopulated and so are their waste products (gas, acids etc). Too much HFCS can upset that balance and give too much food to those bacteria.
    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Yesterday I had a Doctor preaching the evils of high fructose corn syrup to my son. She made NO point of reducing overall sugar as the goal, just HFCS. I didn't want to start an argument with her in front of my son so I didn't ask for the source.

    I did a pretty deep dive into HFCS maybe ten years ago, did a quick search for something different this morning, but before I get more upset is there some new studies I missed?

    I am completely uninterested in feelings about "natural", "unprocessed", and such.
    Data suggest fructose is more problematic than other sugars (the F in HFCS) due mostly to hepatic conversions to TGs and other issues, but at the end of the day, a reduction in sugar intake should be the goal. The dose makes the poison, always, so small amounts of fructose are not an issue per se, but keeping it to a minimum is the goal. How old is your son? Is he experiencing some issue that the doc felt compelled to say that? Without some context, it's also not terribly useful advice

    If I saw a healthy active kid with good labs etc, and I knew he was drinking a Coke a week and his diet was good, I'd shut up and tell his parents to keep doing what ever they were doing. Over weight, off labs, etc, is then a different issues, and reducing sugar intakes, most of which comes in the form of HFCS, is good advice,
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