Better than Mil-Spec?

[Humpy70]

A very scientific principle is applied. They place the muzzle between two steel pins on a table like fixture and another pin is inserted just forward of the handguard and the gunner simply bends the barrel in the direction it needs to go in order to change the point of impact.

In the business it is referred to as IF IT WON'T SHOOT STRAIGHT BEND IT, IF IT WON'T SHOOT BENT STRAIGHTEN IT.

That is not on the drawings. You have probably seen pictures of lines of tooling suspended from ceilings in gun factories with folks looking down barrels and turning wheels on the bottom that apply force to middle of barrel. Many barrels are crooked internally so apply force to straighten the bore internally.

Simplified is it what you do when you wash your car, you bend the hose to direct the water where you want it to squirt.

The acceptance dispersion was relaxed in order to get more ammo accepted and since we were on 386 the adjustments were made on the SCAMP line to allow more tolerances. The looser the tolerances the more ammo gets fielded and less they have to sell to us. The adjustments reset the laser gauging so less is rejected.

All this ammo you see sold in bulk is reject ammo that is allowed so the contractor can recoup costs.

IIRC the acceptance ammo spec was 1.5" MR and the ball was 2.2" when I shot the M16A1E1 test. When we had multiple arsenals that manufactured on manual lines occasionally lots would be produced that shot exceptionally well and the 5.56 that printed 1.5" or less was earmarked for weapons acceptance testing. Now we only have Lake City and the SCAMP lines and they can produce 77 million rounds per day last I talked to the Chief of Ammo engineering right after he retired down in Florida. Last I heard he was making trips all over as a consultant.

[alx01]

If you are interested in stuff like lots size, sample size, what happens with rejections, etc, hunt down a copy of MIL-DTL-71186, MIL-DTL-70599, MIL-DTL-63997 or MIL-R-63997, the requirements are pretty much the same.

thanks lysander - your input and expertise is invaluable

Great data. I'll try find the reference docs.

If anyone knows - are production lines and factories (Colt/FN/etc.) are subject to inspections (initial or periodic) for the process/technical manufacturing conformance from the Gov entities? Does Mil/Gov care what process and procedures Colt uses internally to validate and verify manufacturing adherence/quality? Or is it more along the lines - it's your manufacturing, run it the way you see fit as long as the product matches the spec we don't care about your internal processes.

[The_War_Wagon]

List and/or describe proven improvements that are better than mil-spec. This not a list of items that people just like better but upgrades that actually improve the function and/or use of the AR/M4 platform

This sounds like a job for, "The CHART!"

[lysander]

A very scientific principle is applied. They place the muzzle between two steel pins on a table like fixture and another pin is inserted just forward of the handguard and the gunner simply bends the barrel in the direction it needs to go in order to change the point of impact.

In the business it is referred to as IF IT WON'T SHOOT STRAIGHT BEND IT, IF IT WON'T SHOOT BENT STRAIGHTEN IT.

That is not on the drawings. You have probably seen pictures of lines of tooling suspended from ceilings in gun factories with folks looking down barrels and turning wheels on the bottom that apply force to middle of barrel. Many barrels are crooked internally so apply force to straighten the bore internally.

Simplified is it what you do when you wash your car, you bend the hose to direct the water where you want it to squirt.

I have seen it on some drawings. It is usually euphemistically referred to as "mechanical manipulation".

[Glock9mm1990]

Midlength gas
Vltor A5
Sprinco Springs
Magpul Pmags
Free float rails

[1168]

Midlength gas
Vltor A5
Sprinco Springs
Magpul Pmags
Free float rails

Some of these things are not definitively “better”. A5 is not better if you hit up meth trailers in body armor for a living. Sprinco is not better if you have corrosion concerns. Or if your gun runs fine on Colt/FN springs.

[lysander]

Midlength gas
Vltor A5
Sprinco Springs
Magpul Pmags
Free float rails

PMAGs "better than 'mil-spec" . . .? Maybe, maybe not.

PMAGs when fully loaded and placed into an M4 and dropped from 1.5 meters onto a concrete pad so that they landed on the floor plate, had a tendency bust out the floor plate and ejected the rounds I when cold (conditioned to -60 F), almost always broke in this manner. Aluminum magazines usually just were badly dented or cracked, but still worked, for at least the 30 rounds in the magazine.

They also don't seem to like blanks as much.

[Warp]

PMAGs "better than 'mil-spec" . . .? Maybe, maybe not.

PMAGs when fully loaded and placed into an M4 and dropped from 1.5 meters onto a concrete pad so that they landed on the floor plate, had a tendency bust out the floor plate and ejected the rounds I when cold (conditioned to -60 F), almost always broke in this manner. Aluminum magazines usually just were badly dented or cracked, but still worked, for at least the 30 rounds in the magazine.

They also don't seem to like blanks as much.

Fortunately I don't think I'll ever be needing to drop a loaded mag, pick it back up, and shoot it, in -60 degree Fahrenheit...seeing as how I'll most likely never in my life encounter anything even remotely approaching -60*F lol if that's the knock, who cares?

[Glock9mm1990]

Some of these things are not definitively “better”. A5 is not better if you hit up meth trailers in body armor for a living. Sprinco is not better if you have corrosion concerns. Or if your gun runs fine on Colt/FN springs.

Why couldn’t you just collapse the stock down like a regular M4 tube? I’m not in that position so I prefer to have the stock about midway out myself.

PMAGs "better than 'mil-spec" . . .? Maybe, maybe not.

PMAGs when fully loaded and placed into an M4 and dropped from 1.5 meters onto a concrete pad so that they landed on the floor plate, had a tendency bust out the floor plate and ejected the rounds I when cold (conditioned to -60 F), almost always broke in this manner. Aluminum magazines usually just were badly dented or cracked, but still worked, for at least the 30 rounds in the magazine.

They also don't seem to like blanks as much.

Pmags have surpassed all other magazines in reliability and durability in DOD testing. I do like gi mags though.

[lysander]

Pmags have surpassed all other magazines in reliability and durability in DOD testing. I do like gi mags though.

Actually, that is from a military test, so no, they have not "surpassed" . . .