Noveske or KAC

[Stickman]

Thanks everyone for your advice!

I sent a link to this thread to my BIL and he appreciates the help.

I did mention to him that if he had to use it, the police could hold on to it for a while as evidence.

I think from his research, my BIL thinks a semi SG would be better than an Ar for him. I think he is going to compare them.
(I suggested a semi SG over a pump - easier to manipulate > greater reliability)

Or the Ar may be for his wife.

I have nothing against psa for someone with a small budget but he is well off and can easily afford 2 colt oems...which is only a little more than a psa (when your rich)

He has been in martial arts since high school but had to stop when he had kids and now he also helps his parents a lot.
He would use the rifle if he had to...but he is somewhat versed in escrima, stand up and jiu-jitsu. He is not fat. He has gained muscle and is fairly lean. This Vulcan is pretty tough. I think he used to help his police officer friend train other police and maybe a few swat. (His friend is pretty tuff too. While a cadet at the academy, I think he was better than the instructors so they asked him to help teach the other cadets)

Point is he is smart, rich and can go hands if needed.....so he’ll use it....but only if necessary .....like Spock :-)

My wife, her dad and her brothers are good in art and music. My BIL may be slightly attracted to the aesthetics of some “tools” and may be why he was leaning to a Noveske.

Thanks again for your advice!! It’s always good to get other perspectives

Tim and BIL,

The semi auto shotgun is NOT more reliable than a pump gun. I'm not sure how that ever made it into this thread, but it just isn't true. A pump shotgun is always going to be more reliable. Pump guns don't care about things like lack of lubrication from sitting in a closet for 6 years, dirt from not being cleaned in 6 years, or feeding a box of cheap shotgun shells. No, pumps don't like to be short stroked, but it still doesn't change that the pump is more reliable. Yes, I'm a shotgun instructor and shotgun armorer (large PD and state and manufacturer certified). I have carried and used a shotgun in an operational capacity, with multiple successful real world engagements.

Next on the list is to comment on which is better, an AR or a shotgun for defense. The simple answer is that the AR15 is a lower recoil, higher capacity, and more accurate weapon which also penetrates less in walls. In what way can your brother in law, yourself, or others think a shotgun wins this argument? Yes, along with being a shot gun instructor / armorer I am also an AR15 instructor / armorer and have used the AR15 platform to search and secure hundreds if not thousands of structures (residences and commercial), and have also used both shotgun and AR platform in MIL operations as well. If that isn't enough, I teach courses to LE, and civilians regarding use of force and tactics. Lastly, I am one of a few instructors able to attain a certain ranking / certification within the state, and I am also a multi platform and course instructor for various weapons and tactical classes.

Much like your BIL, I have spent a lifetime in the martial arts, and have used those skills more times than I can count while in uniform. There is a martial art / combative aspect that transitions from empty hand, to closed hand, and use of basic weapons like that bo and sai which carried over into firearms (at least if taught correctly).

If you or your BIL has questions you would rather not ask on the forum, feel free to email me. stickgunner@yahoo.com works well.

[Boba Fett v2]

Noveske or KAC

[Sid Post]

My KAC SR-15 is a truly superior rifle. The gas system on the upper is unique to KAC and is simply awesome. I have been led to believe the Triarc uppers/rifles are similarly soft and smooth for the shooter, super accurate and, reliable. KAC has ambidextrous controls that are important to some people, though not as truly ambidextrous as an LMT MSAR rifle.

For a shotgun, it is hard to go wrong with a Remington 870 but, personally I think a Benelli Nova pump is better. A semi-auto shotgun is not optimal for home defense, rioting, etc. for the 'casual' user as they take more practice to use effectively (general operation, malfunction clearance, etc.) and definitely are not as forgiving of lack of maintenance, cleaning, weak bird loads, etc.

Lastly, since money clearly is not the limiting factor, get some PAID TRAINING from a real instructor! Your buddy might be a great 'shot' but, that doesn't make them a great instructor!

[elephant]

Tell him a Noveske or KAC are Ferrari’s, he really needs a Ford, Chevy or Toyota.

LWRC and Barrett's are Ferraris, KAC and Noveske are Lamborghinis


Instead of looking at just Noveske and KAC, I would also look at LWRC and Barrett. All are comparable in performance and quality, and consistent in price. I have the Barrett Rec7 flyweight 6.8, not a 556 but defiantly a light weight gun and has rock solid performance. 6.8SPC is getting more popular so there are more choices for ammo. I al.so have a LWRC IC-A5 and IC-DI, both are proven designs. Dallas Swat just switched to the 10.5 IC-A5, I like the adjustable gas block and priced at $2495, its comparable to both KAC and Noveske.

[Sid Post]

LWRC and Barrett's are Ferraris, KAC and Noveske are Lamborghinis


Instead of looking at just Noveske and KAC, I would also look at LWRC and Barrett. All are comparable in performance and quality, and consistent in price. I have the Barrett Rec7 flyweight 6.8, not a 556 but defiantly a light weight gun and has rock solid performance. 6.8SPC is getting more popular so there are more choices for ammo. I al.so have a LWRC IC-A5 and IC-DI, both are proven designs. Dallas Swat just switched to the 10.5 IC-A5, I like the adjustable gas block and priced at $2495, its comparable to both KAC and Noveske.

I have an LWRC Six8 which is awesome against FERAL HOGS! However, I find the gas system that works so well with suppressors puts a good bit of additional weight out front. Add a thermal scope and it makes my 16" 308 rifle with iron sights seem like a lightweight. For someone like the original poster with no real experience and a vague notion of what use it will see, I can't recommend an LWRC. Add a light or other common 'mall ninja' things to an already front heavy rifle and, how will they ever hold it 'up' if they are confronted by a looter who doesn't immediately run away? Doubt me, ask them to hold a 5# sack of flour in their outstretched left (non-dominant) hand while you talk to them!

Barrett's are interesting but, to be honest, I don't think I have ever seen one in a store or in the wild. The look interesting from afar but, they basically have no market penetration. In a Katrina/Sandy type diaster with looters and general mayhem, I want something more widespread and common (i.e. I want to attract less attention to myself).

6.8SPC and 308W are both going to be more effective but, at what cost? For someone who isn't a dedicated hunter, sportsman, or range rat, the additional recoil and muzzle blast are not helpful to effectively using the rifle. Then there is ammo weight when you are mobile; it is hard to argue against good lighter weight 5.56 options if you need to put them in a small backpack and walk with them. In a castle (home) or bunker scenario, I'll take the heavier round and a suppressed rifle every time, possibly with a thermal hog scope.

Coming full circle back to the original post, a LIGHTER WEIGHT classic AR-15 without 5 pounds of lights, lasers, and other gun show mall ninja stuff on the forearm is the way to go for this individual. If they can afford a Noveske or KAC, buying a second different rifle in the future isn't going to be a problem and they will then have more actual experience to make a better choice for themself.

[TheChunkNorris]

LWRC and Barrett's are Ferraris, KAC and Noveske are Lamborghinis


Instead of looking at just Noveske and KAC, I would also look at LWRC and Barrett. All are comparable in performance and quality, and consistent in price. I have the Barrett Rec7 flyweight 6.8, not a 556 but defiantly a light weight gun and has rock solid performance. 6.8SPC is getting more popular so there are more choices for ammo. I al.so have a LWRC IC-A5 and IC-DI, both are proven designs. Dallas Swat just switched to the 10.5 IC-A5, I like the adjustable gas block and priced at $2495, its comparable to both KAC and Noveske.

I have a LWRC M6SL, it’s my lightest piston gun and I have a couple thousand rounds through it unsuppressed. Sadly theyre no longer made and only cost about 1600 new. For piston guns I’m partial to a HK MR556 but that’s a whole different convo.