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Thread: Noveske quality post ‘13

  1. #11
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    They have always been pretty much exactly 600$ more than they should. It is one of those cases where you can build it yourself for less.

    There was a time when other companies did not make guns like they did. Today that is not true, many companies make a great gun. When Noveske was a great gun was when your other options were a neutered Colt or a Bushmaster. Compared to those it was great.

    Today I'd take a KAC, Daniel defense, BCM, Hodge, SOLGW, ect over a Noveske.

    And quite honestly when you are talking that much money the only gun to buy is the KAC.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    They factually are not the same products today which they were when John was alive.
    Please let us know how.
    I’m not disbelieving you; I would genuinely like to know.

    Like Eurodriver, my recent manufacture Noveske barrels are absurdly accurate.

    Other than scattered QC issues that plague nearly all manufacturers, I have only ever heard anecdotal evidence about the Noveske quality decline.

    I keep looking for a quantifiable problem with a large sample size regarding Noveske QC.

    The most consistent complaint I have seen about Noveske is that they are overpriced and over gassed. Overpriced, I would agree. Over gassed, it depends.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowSpeed_HighDrag View Post
    The old switchblock barrels, and for the most part even current production, are my favorite barrels for suppressed SBRs, problem being finding a rail to work with them.
    Agreed, I'm essentially stuck with the SWS split rail since I have a 14.5 pinned 51T Blackout MD w/ switchblock - The rail is nice but obviously heavier than a more modern MLOK rail setup. It's my shorty precision rifle and does great in that aspect, just a tad portlier than I'd prefer.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post
    I keep looking for a quantifiable problem with a large sample size regarding Noveske QC.
    Good luck with that.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanktop View Post
    I know you’re an industry insider and you have a financial interest but do you also have an NDA or gentleman’s agreement to not discuss further?

    I’m not a big fan of, “some guy on the internet said they suck so it must be true”...

    In no way shape or form have I said they suck, not now, not ever. With that out of the way, what I am saying is that they are different now than they were when John was alive. I will not get into propriety changes or differences on levels that I have not previously stated. It is not a matter of financial interest with Noveske, or anyone else. I have done work with them in the past, and I can say that about a lot of manufacturers, you could probably say that I have worked with almost every of the large to medium sized (and plenty of smaller) firearm and related companies. None of the companies have ever thought that I would change my honest opinion of products, and I have always called it like I see it based on my MIL and LE training and experiences. That honesty (or bluntness) has been something that manufacturers know and respect. No worries there. If I had a life of making videos and charging 5k or more a pop and guaranteeing good reviews, that would be different, but I don't.

    For people who have tried calling me out on not writing negative reviews (not saying you), I have freely admitted that I will not review a crap product. Time is money, and in many cases there is so little money involved in writing that its not overly worth my time. I am not going to spend my time working with garbage, it just isn't worth it. Magazines don't want crap articles, and it seems that the guys who do want to somehow prove themselves by writing about garbage are trying to prove they are the only honest man in the room. That is great for them, but I'll stick to honest opinions of higher end pieces, and leave the bottom barrel stuff out.

    Getting back to Noveske, there are certain things that simply are no longer known at the Noveske company. When John died, Sheri stayed on for awhile, while a new president came on board and made a wide group of sweeping changes. He did this to get Noveske into a better position in both the market, and financially. He left, and shortly later Sheri left (and founded ERA3). Not only did the company lose proprietary information when John died, it lost a massive amount when Sheri left. The office staff wasn't filled with firearm experts, and there was no one on Johnnys level. The people in the back end worked in their individual areas, but weren't experts in the larger sense. Once information is gone, its gone. Look at how long it took after the fall of Rome to figure out concrete!

    We have established that there was an information loss at a certain point, but you also need to look at a larger picture and see things have continued to alter in other ways. CHANGE IS NOT BAD, it is simply change. It can be for the better or worse, and I've got news for people, Noveske would look difference after 5 or 10 years even if John hadn't died. Change is important in this industry because people/ customers/ consumers are always looking for a better, cooler, more high speed mouse trap. This industry, and people in general are highly visual (which is great for me), and old products don't sell well.

    The changes that are made are often very clear, which is why I'm not saying change is bad (just different). The Gen 2 lowers went away from being forged, and while that may make a few of us cry, how many broken billet lowers have you seen from Noveske? None! Noveske moved on passed the Gen 3, and into a new version, and then included an Ambi variant!! Those are all changes made after the passing of John, and most people like an ambi option. Another change is barrels, with Pac-Nor burning down, changes have to be made, but we have people pointing out (rightfully so), that their Noveske barrels shoot like lasers. There are Noveske pistols, Noveske pistol caliber carbines, and the list goes on and on for new changes and innovation since John left us. Does that make the changes automatically good or bad just because its a change?

    I think that all too often people want to focus on Noveske and fixate on John having died. He did, and he was a friend of mine, and all of need to move on. The company he founded has continued to evolve. Probably not in the way John would have, but with growing pains, new people pains, new demands on outsourcing, new suppliers, new friendships and new products, they have continued to grow. If the guns shoot well, that is the end answer for the question. There have been issues that I've heard about, but I'm unaware of anyone not getting issues taken care of, and that counts pretty big for most of us.

    On a side note, when Noveske was coming up in the AR world, there were a few others coming up at the same time. Of the three that come to mind immediately for me, Noveske is the only one out of those three that isn't quietly trying to sell off their company (that I'm aware of). It kinda makes you think that maybe they are doing things right...


    I know people will read this and say I'm bashing Noveske, and I know that some will read this and say I'm kissing up. Like I said above, I call it like I see it.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I call it like I see it.
    I didn’t read that as bashing or sucking up. I enjoyed it, actually.
    “God doesn’t need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168
    7.5” is the Ed Hardy of barrel lengths.

  7. #17
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    Sometimes I forget that Stickman can actually be a decent dude.

    Thanks for the post.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Sometimes I forget that Stickman can actually be a decent dude.

    Thanks for the post.
    You can shut the hell up with your nice words!!


    On a serious note, there are people this will offend, but like I said, I post honestly from my own point of view.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    In no way shape or form have I said they suck, not now, not ever. With that out of the way, what I am saying is that they are different now than they were when John was alive. I will not get into propriety changes or differences on levels that I have not previously stated. It is not a matter of financial interest with Noveske, or anyone else. I have done work with them in the past, and I can say that about a lot of manufacturers, you could probably say that I have worked with almost every of the large to medium sized (and plenty of smaller) firearm and related companies. None of the companies have ever thought that I would change my honest opinion of products, and I have always called it like I see it based on my MIL and LE training and experiences. That honesty (or bluntness) has been something that manufacturers know and respect. No worries there. If I had a life of making videos and charging 5k or more a pop and guaranteeing good reviews, that would be different, but I don't.

    For people who have tried calling me out on not writing negative reviews (not saying you), I have freely admitted that I will not review a crap product. Time is money, and in many cases there is so little money involved in writing that its not overly worth my time. I am not going to spend my time working with garbage, it just isn't worth it. Magazines don't want crap articles, and it seems that the guys who do want to somehow prove themselves by writing about garbage are trying to prove they are the only honest man in the room. That is great for them, but I'll stick to honest opinions of higher end pieces, and leave the bottom barrel stuff out.

    Getting back to Noveske, there are certain things that simply are no longer known at the Noveske company. When John died, Sheri stayed on for awhile, while a new president came on board and made a wide group of sweeping changes. He did this to get Noveske into a better position in both the market, and financially. He left, and shortly later Sheri left (and founded ERA3). Not only did the company lose proprietary information when John died, it lost a massive amount when Sheri left. The office staff wasn't filled with firearm experts, and there was no one on Johnnys level. The people in the back end worked in their individual areas, but weren't experts in the larger sense. Once information is gone, its gone. Look at how long it took after the fall of Rome to figure out concrete!

    We have established that there was an information loss at a certain point, but you also need to look at a larger picture and see things have continued to alter in other ways. CHANGE IS NOT BAD, it is simply change. It can be for the better or worse, and I've got news for people, Noveske would look difference after 5 or 10 years even if John hadn't died. Change is important in this industry because people/ customers/ consumers are always looking for a better, cooler, more high speed mouse trap. This industry, and people in general are highly visual (which is great for me), and old products don't sell well.

    The changes that are made are often very clear, which is why I'm not saying change is bad (just different). The Gen 2 lowers went away from being forged, and while that may make a few of us cry, how many broken billet lowers have you seen from Noveske? None! Noveske moved on passed the Gen 3, and into a new version, and then included an Ambi variant!! Those are all changes made after the passing of John, and most people like an ambi option. Another change is barrels, with Pac-Nor burning down, changes have to be made, but we have people pointing out (rightfully so), that their Noveske barrels shoot like lasers. There are Noveske pistols, Noveske pistol caliber carbines, and the list goes on and on for new changes and innovation since John left us. Does that make the changes automatically good or bad just because its a change?

    I think that all too often people want to focus on Noveske and fixate on John having died. He did, and he was a friend of mine, and all of need to move on. The company he founded has continued to evolve. Probably not in the way John would have, but with growing pains, new people pains, new demands on outsourcing, new suppliers, new friendships and new products, they have continued to grow. If the guns shoot well, that is the end answer for the question. There have been issues that I've heard about, but I'm unaware of anyone not getting issues taken care of, and that counts pretty big for most of us.

    On a side note, when Noveske was coming up in the AR world, there were a few others coming up at the same time. Of the three that come to mind immediately for me, Noveske is the only one out of those three that isn't quietly trying to sell off their company (that I'm aware of). It kinda makes you think that maybe they are doing things right...


    I know people will read this and say I'm bashing Noveske, and I know that some will read this and say I'm kissing up. Like I said above, I call it like I see it.
    Thanks for that honest response. Lacking your personal insight and detail that is, give or take, about what I was assuming to be the facts. Thank you for taking the time.

    On a side note mil spec take down and pivot pins are a bit too tight in a Noveske gen 3 receiver but Noveske branded pins are perfect.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    I always figured the Noveske sucks sentiment to be mainly internet dog piling, because you know, its the internet. I have the same Crusader barrel Euro mentioned. Always been very accurate for me also. Their other parts I have used have also been top notch. Are they on the higher side pricewise? Sure. Is their stuff worth the Noveske tax? That's a personal decision.

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