(COVID/ETC CONTENT HERE) China Locks Down 11 Million in Wuhan,

I don't need a solution, I don't have a low supply of masks.
Let me clear this up for you, in my former profession we had a guy who's job it was to order supplies, PPE was a big part of that. Like everyone else that worked at HQ's they had a budget, if they kept under budget, they got a bonus.
I am not sure if it works that way where you work, but it just might.
So it behooves the guy running the purse strings to dip in to the red at certain times of the year, rather than make an expenditure that would bust his budget.
So what's the shelf life on an M95 mask? Like forever?
So this comes down to better safe than sorry or is it instead about money?
It didn't have to be Corona Virus, it could have been any emegency that caused this. This has been gong hot since late January early February and the folks you work for now don't have masks and your health is in jeopardy. It really must suck to work for someone like that, maybe instead of telling me about it, you might want to go have a talk with them?

Originally Posted by mack7.62

Hospitals can't buy a lifetime supply of masks, being medical equipment they have an expiration date and once expired during "normal times" they can no longer be used. I have some around here that expired in 2016, are they still good, yes, would they be used today, yes, but before this shortage they wouldn't be. I only have about 20 but I am thinking about taking to the local hospital and see if they can use them.

Makes sense to me, all of it except a shelf life on masks that is.
And what do you want to bet someone in the Medical Supply business did some lobbying so M95 masks and tongue depressors have a shelf life?

Originally Posted by Averageman

I don't need a solution, I don't have a low supply of masks.
Let me clear this up for you, in my former profession we had a guy who's job it was to order supplies, PPE was a big part of that. Like everyone else that worked at HQ's they had a budget, if they kept under budget, they got a bonus.
I am not sure if it works that way where you work, but it just might.
So it behooves the guy running the purse strings to dip in to the red at certain times of the year, rather than make an expenditure that would bust his budget.
So what's the shelf life on an M95 mask? Like forever?
So this comes down to better safe than sorry or is it instead about money?
It didn't have to be Corona Virus, it could have been any emegency that caused this. This has been gong hot since late January early February and the folks you work for now don't have masks and your health is in jeopardy. It really must suck to work for someone like that, maybe instead of telling me about it, you might want to go have a talk with them?

No, the shelf life isn’t forever. In fact, most N95s in a hospital setting are used for fit-testing or carried home because they are expired. Believe it or not, use of N95s is actually only for a very very small minority of patients. It is illegal to provide expired N95s for use in a clinical setting. It is estimated over 5 million expired N95s are in hospital inventory that cannot be used.


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Originally Posted by Averageman

Makes sense to me, all of it except a shelf life on masks that is.
And what do you want to bet someone in the Medical Supply business did some lobbying so M95 masks and tongue depressors have a shelf life?

The materials used in N95s begin decaying the moment they are manufactured and the level of filtration decreases. It isn’t lobbying. It is about reduced effectiveness.


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Originally Posted by lsllc

Props to them.


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Was actually thinking of you and the rest of the M4C medical community when I posted that, hoping it might help you guys out. We all have our differences here every now and again, but at the end of the day where the rubber meets the road, we're all in this together after all.

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Was actually thinking of you and the rest of the M4C medical community when I posted that, hoping it might help you guys out. We all have our differences here every now and again, but at the end of the day where the rubber meets the road, we're all in this together after all.

Appreciate it, brother!


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Originally Posted by Averageman

Let me clear this up for you, in my former profession we had a guy who's job it was to order supplies, PPE was a big part of that. Like everyone else that worked at HQ's they had a budget, if they kept under budget, they got a bonus.

So instead of rewarding fiscal responsibility, we should punish it?

Originally Posted by Averageman

Makes sense to me, all of it except a shelf life on masks that is.
And what do you want to bet someone in the Medical Supply business did some lobbying so M95 masks and tongue depressors have a shelf life?

Armor - including kevlar - has an expiration date on it, too. Properly cared for, it'll last forever. In fact, I've seen things to suggest that kevlar gets more effective with age provided that it's properly cared for.

You can bet that the armor manufacturers wanted an expiration date on the armor, because they don't want to be on the hook if you get shot and get seriously injured or die because your battered, abused thirty year old kevlar didn't stop a pistol bullet it was made to stop (and would have stopped, thirty years ago - or if you had taken proper care of it).

Originally Posted by lsllc

No, the shelf life isn’t forever. In fact, most N95s in a hospital setting are used for fit-testing or carried home because they are expired. Believe it or not, use of N95s is actually only for a very very small minority of patients. It is illegal to provide expired N95s for use in a clinical setting. It is estimated over 5 million expired N95s are in hospital inventory that cannot be used.


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So, just what is the shelf life?

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Harbor Freight is donating their entire stock of N95 for exactly that.
https://em.harborfreight.com/pub/sf/...8nlwl2Q-Wppyxw

That's what you call stepping up to the plate.

Originally Posted by Averageman

So, just what is the shelf life?

Depends on a multitude of things, including manufacturer. I believe most are 2 to 5 years. Which is a very difficult thing, because most institutions will only support using them for airborne precautions which is relatively rare. Most go to waste and stocking them in mass for an event like this is quite expensive. On average, each person will use 25 one-time-use N95s per shift with around 4-6 personnel entering and exiting the room per day. When planning for an event like this, which we are being told when it is in full swing, there will be 30ish patients at a time in our unit requiring N95s, though due to PPE shortage and negative pressure room shortages, CDC is relaxing to droplet except during procedures such as intubation and extinction. They are also allowing reusing of one-time-use N95s. This relaxation of PPE standards for something we don’t fully yet understand seems somewhat risky for other, non-infected patients.

Do the math there. Two shifts and 25 per shift per patient for 4-6 personnel x30 patients per day for an ICU unit. I know that’s an extreme example (consistent with what we are being told to expect), but preparing for thay when an average of no more than four airborne patients a year is common?

We are being told 180 days of this “crisis” is as likely as not. Is keeping half a million N95s in a hospital practical?

One might say to cluster care and make fewer entry and exists into a room. Tell thay to the intubated patient in shock requiring suction four times an hour and vasopressor titrations every fifteen minutes.

When PPE isn’t in shortage, it isn’t uncommon to see 150 or so simple face masks used on my ICU patients in a shift.

Right now relaxing standards allowing reusing of N95s on one patient up to 8 hours will help with shortages and will hopefully have no unintended consequences. Once an N95 is opened, effectiveness begins declining quickly, to the point which it is considered ineffective at 8 hours.


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