(COVID/ETC CONTENT HERE) China Locks Down 11 Million in Wuhan,

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

The lack of pertinent information in this crisis is perhaps the most maddening part. And the reason why we know so little is that the only thing that we know for sure is that the Chinese govt lied to us about it. And there starts all of the miss information, bad information, and lack of clarity on what we are dealing with.

The death totals in Italy and Spain lays bare the fact that the Chinese govt is lying to us by at least an order of magnitude. Considering it started there, with their population and healthcare access, and their density there is no way that they only lost a couple of thousand people.

Tariffs to encourage on sure production of more goods and materials seems a small price to pay now for being less reliant on those ****ers.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Look at these numbers. The Chinese govt is lying to us.

If I squint at these numbers and based on what I understand about Italy and Spain, it looks like about 100,000 deaths in the US. Total swag.

If you weren’t in one of these high-risk groups, but we see that there are a fair number admissions for people outside of those groups, if you had access at home to medical 02, would you use some of that to keeps your stats up rather than go to the hospital? Asking for a friend.

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Look at these numbers. The Chinese govt is lying to us.

If I squint at these numbers and based on what I understand about Italy and Spain, it looks like about 100,000 deaths in the US. Total swag.

If you weren’t in one of these high-risk groups, but we see that there are a fair number admissions for people outside of those groups, if you had access at home to medical 02, would you use some of that to keeps your stats up rather than go to the hospital? Asking for a friend.

There is nothing wrong with home oxygen therapy for any respiratory illness. But you want a good quality pulse oximeter in addition to the oxygen. If your buddy is on o2 and his saturation falls below 94 I’d be thinking about a trip to the ER.

Im using a device called Biostrap to monitor my pulse ox and other vitals at home. It’s an accurate and quality piece of equipment.

Thanks for the info HVYWT. Hadn't thought of getting my own monitor, they just told me what flow rate to use and set me up with a generator and some bottles. I get winded and dizzy once in a while while coughing/clearing out. I am pretty sure I am on the back side of whatever I have (apparently my bug was non denominational, ie non conclusive) but if the wife can arrange getting an OTC monitor I will get one.

Will, thanks for the link, I perused. I am going to read it all and possibly even digest some.

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

The lack of pertinent information in this crisis is perhaps the most maddening part. And the reason why we know so little is that the only thing that we know for sure is that the Chinese govt lied to us about it. And there starts all of the miss information, bad information, and lack of clarity on what we are dealing with.

The death totals in Italy and Spain lays bare the fact that the Chinese govt is lying to us by at least an order of magnitude. Considering it started there, with their population and healthcare access, and their density there is no way that they only lost a couple of thousand people.

Tariffs to encourage on sure production of more goods and materials seems a small price to pay now for being less reliant on those ****ers.

One of the perils of a closed society, suppressing emergencies in both scope and severity. One look at the stats tells you China is lying.

If we’re going to sit and yack about China, the Chinese government, and their associated “stats” related to this virus you have to take it one way or the other, there is no other source of data out of there and it will be years before we really know the truth.

The Chinese National CDC actually seems relatively competent and capable of you look around for intel. Each province has labs as well. They are very well aware and have been for a long time that their bird (both wild and domestic) populations are huge reservoirs of influenza viruses which pose significant pandemic threats. They are equally aware of the similar risks with bats and other animals as reservoirs / intermediaries for various Coronaviruses.

They knew immediately what they had, they tried to save face and contain it without raising the alarms. It simply doesn’t matter anymore, cats out of the bag and the world has to handle it now... time to move on and punish them later.

As far as their control of the outbreak it is actually quite feasible that they stomped it by a significant margin. We all see they are easing restrictions, even in the Hubei province, but don’t forget that the actual city of Wuhan is STILL 100% locked. Those people have not been out of their homes since 1/23 and will not be until 4/7 at the earliest.

Also, a Chinese lock down is no joke, there are/were dozens of videos of people being dragged off in vehicles kicking and screaming, doors on residential complexes being welded shut, and so forth.

How much you want to put into their numbers is anyone’s guess, they lost control and stopped a lot of testing at the peak. But they still reported. They are the ONLY country I’m aware of that reported diagnoses that were made solely based on chest imaging, vs lab results.... that tells me their numbers were (at that point) probably pretty reliable. Fast forward to now and they have too much to lose on the world stage if they don’t have this whipped, so many grains of salt.

But one thing, I seriously doubt they have a raging epidemic right now even if they still have a lot of cases.

Time will tell. There will be places here that end up looking like Italy/Spain/Iran. It’s already starting to happen in NYC to an extent. There will also be places out in the small towns and sticks that probably escape relatively easy.

Either way, this plague deserves our full attention. Even if we pull through easy, there are lessons to be learned if people are willing.

A pandemic H5 bird flu with a CFR of 30%+ is a real threat in this world... wake up take note to what is going on today.

Originally Posted by eightmillimeter

If we’re going to sit and yack about China, the Chinese government, and their associated “stats” related to this virus you have to take it one way or the other, there is no other source of data out of there and it will be years before we really know the truth.

The Chinese National CDC actually seems relatively competent and capable of you look around for intel. Each province has labs as well. They are very well aware and have been for a long time that their bird (both wild and domestic) populations are huge reservoirs of influenza viruses which pose significant pandemic threats. They are equally aware of the similar risks with bats and other animals as reservoirs / intermediaries for various Coronaviruses.

They knew immediately what they had, they tried to save face and contain it without raising the alarms. It simply doesn’t matter anymore, cats out of the bag and the world has to handle it now... time to move on and punish them later.

As far as their control of the outbreak it is actually quite feasible that they stomped it by a significant margin. We all see they are easing restrictions, even in the Hubei province, but don’t forget that the actual city of Wuhan is STILL 100% locked. Those people have not been out of their homes since 1/23 and will not be until 4/7 at the earliest.

Also, a Chinese lock down is no joke, there are/were dozens of videos of people being dragged off in vehicles kicking and screaming, doors on residential complexes being welded shut, and so forth.

How much you want to put into their numbers is anyone’s guess, they lost control and stopped a lot of testing at the peak. But they still reported. They are the ONLY country I’m aware of that reported diagnoses that were made solely based on chest imaging, vs lab results.... that tells me their numbers were (at that point) probably pretty reliable. Fast forward to now and they have too much to lose on the world stage if they don’t have this whipped, so many grains of salt.

But one thing, I seriously doubt they have a raging epidemic right now even if they still have a lot of cases.

Time will tell. There will be places here that end up looking like Italy/Spain/Iran. It’s already starting to happen in NYC to an extent. There will also be places out in the small towns and sticks that probably escape relatively easy.

Either way, this plague deserves our full attention. Even if we pull through easy, there are lessons to be learned if people are willing.

A pandemic H5 bird flu with a CFR of 30%+ is a real threat in this world... wake up take note to what is going on today.

And therein lies the difference between China (NK, and any other authoritarian regime), and everyone else: China doesn't care about killing some of its' people to save the rest, and it's OK imposing draconian measures.

Interestingly, a friend of mine flew in from eastern Europe (via State Dept, he was on contract). He said eastern European countries are kinda the same way, having dealt with that kind of government before, so when the government said go inside, don't come out, they pretty much comply, like the old days.

I think the draconian measures wouldn't work so wll here, maybe in the large, heavily populated areas but not so much in any rural area. The South, for instance is doing everything it can to keep the virus out of the jails and prisons and managing the populations with that intention in mind. If these controls were attempted who would enforce it? The Guard? Sheriff's Offices? PD's? And how would it be enforced? Stuff them in an already overcrowded detention system? Not really likely or feasible. Like I've always said when gun control comversations arise, Freedom Costs!

Originally Posted by Warg

The guys doing this stuff know they're going to be off by a wide margin and will qualify this in every model they run and publish. What's fascinating is that in the original Ferguson paper the authors cite a worst case of 2.2 M US deaths and 550,000 deaths in Great Britain (GB). However, the authors also present a low estimate (with social controls and a lower disease reproduction factor) of 5,600 deaths in GB with a similar proportional reduction in the US. Of course no one in the media reported that and likely few actually read and/or understood the manuscript.

I'm no scientist, but as an Architect, if I gave you a set of drawings and said it was for a 4,000SF home, then when it's built it ends up a 160sf shed, I would lose my license. Yet somehow we let "scientists" slide with this crap all the time, just look at the wildly wrong predictions of climatologists; hockey stick graph et al. If you want to do crap science, fine, but if your crap science effects the lives of millions or in this case, billions of people, and you are wrong, you should be in prison for a long long time.

The media crap fest over incorrect reports like these caused a panic which really screwed over a lot of people. I just don't see any defense to what this dude said/did/wrote/published. Maybe instead of wanting to be the first one out with your chicken little theory, you wait for some more data before making such predictions?

Originally Posted by seb5

I think the draconian measures wouldn't work so wll here, maybe in the large, heavily populated areas but not so much in any rural area. The South, for instance is doing everything it can to keep the virus out of the jails and prisons and managing the populations with that intention in mind. If these controls were attempted who would enforce it? The Guard? Sheriff's Offices? PD's? And how would it be enforced? Stuff them in an already overcrowded detention system? Not really likely or feasible. Like I've always said when gun control comversations arise, Freedom Costs!

Fully agree. That’s what I’m saying, they say lock down they f-n mean it. Explains the low numbers coming out even it they’re still lying. That shit just wouldn’t end well here.

2 trillion dollars. Lot of pork. After Trumps attack on Massie, I am firmly off the Trump train. Who wants me to write them in?