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Thread: Advice About Situation with my LMT MWS

  1. #1
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    Advice About Situation with my LMT MWS

    I originally posted this in the ammo section, thinking it was an ammo issue, then realized it was definitely not. Here's my situation. I had my LMT MWS out at the range yesterday for the first time since I installed a Geissele SSA-E trigger in it (I've installed a lot of triggers in the past, most Geisseles). While I shooting about twenty rounds, twice, the BCG would cycle, grab a new round, chamber it, but the trigger had not cocked. Weird. It happened only twice out of about a total of 80 rounds I fired yesterday. Slow fire, I might add, at various ranges, so I was not blazing away.

    At first I wondered if maybe there is an AR-10 specific SSA-E and found out, nope, they are the same and from every report I could find online they work fine with AR-10s and people report no issues with LMT MWS rifles.

    When it happened, I could not pull the trigger, had to jack the round out by really yanking on the CH. Then I reloaded the round in the magazine and pulled the bolt back, locked it, inserted mag, hit bolt release, round chambered and "bang" this time, the hammer had been cocked.

    I should mention the rifle and the BCG and everything was thoroughly cleaned before I took it out with the SSA-E trigger group. I'm shooting from a strong bipod, good fundamentals, etc. etc. I'm an experienced long range shooter with a wide variety of rifles in semi-auto and bolt action, etc.

    Has anyone had this experience before? Any thoughts on what may be going on? It's just disconcerting to have this happen. I've not had this happen to me before with this rifle, or any other rifle. In fact, I swapped a Geissele SSA trigger group out and put the SSA-E instead of it. I think I had it happen one time before with the SSA, but only once, and I didn't give it a second thought, figured it was fluke.

    But now with it happening twice to me...

    Ideas? Thoughts? I appreciate it

  2. #2
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    FYI...in the future instead of starting a new thread for the same topic you have already started elsewhere, you can ask a Moderator to move it to the correct sub forum...helps keep the clutter down.

    While I don’t have a MWS, I do have an SSA-E in my AR-10 and I have not experienced any issues. First question I would ask, is have you ensured the hammer spring is installed correctly? I am not doubting your ability as you said you have installed multiple triggers in the past, but it is something that could have been overlooked.

    With the additional detail you included in this post, if I understand correctly, you had not experienced these issues UNTIL you installed the SSA-E? Never had issues with the LMT trigger? I would say that sure narrows down your problem.
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
    CVN-65, USS Enterprise

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    OK, thanks....re. clutter...understood. I did my best to delete and indicate I moved it. Sorry that was not enough.

    Re. hammer spring...good question, I think so, otherwise, how could I have shot it 80 times with only twice having this weird "fail to reset/cock" the trigger? If it didn't work at all, that would make a good case for a spring issue, right? But that it worked mostly but not twice...weird. Defnitely can check that.

    I had it happen once before, while I had the SSA in, but that was over several hundred rounds. Yesterday, twice while shooting 80 rounds.

    I'm heading out in a bit to the range again and will pull the BCG and wipe it down well, perhaps I over greased it on the edge that cycles the hammer?

    Thanks for your response and any help from anyone else.
    Last edited by Schootz; 02-01-20 at 07:31.

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    No worries, just letting you know our Mods are helpful here.
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
    CVN-65, USS Enterprise

  5. #5
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    Advice About Situation with my LMT MWS

    Quote Originally Posted by Schootz View Post
    OK, thanks....re. clutter...understood. I did my best to delete and indicate I moved it. Sorry that was not enough.

    Re. hammer spring...good question, I think so, otherwise, how could I have shot it 80 times with only twice having this weird "fail to reset/cock" the trigger? If it didn't work at all, that would make a good case for a spring issue, right? But that it worked mostly but not twice...weird. Defnitely can check that.

    I had it happen once before, while I had the SSA in, but that was over several hundred rounds. Yesterday, twice while shooting 80 rounds.

    I'm heading out in a bit to the range again and will pull the BCG and wipe it down well, perhaps I over greased it on the edge that cycles the hammer?

    Thanks for your response and any help from anyone else.
    It’s important to understand how the hammer, disconnector, and trigger work.
    In your rifle the hammer is following the bolt forward, failing to remain cocked. The disconnector is designed to prevent that by catching the hammer. In a properly working system, when you release the trigger, the sear lifts to be ready to engage the sear notch in the hammer, and then the disconnector releases the hammer to allow it to engage the sear. That’s the trigger reset.

    The disconnector isn’t doing it’s job. For some reason it’s not preventing the hammer from following the bolt carrier forward. That doesn’t usually result in the firing pin being struck hard enough to fire.

    It the disconnector was working but the sear fails when you release the trigger, you hear a real loud bang usually followed by cussing.

    I don’t know the consistency of the grease you used, but the disconnector engages very positively with the hammer. It’s difficult for me to imagine any reasonable gun grease preventing that.

    I would take the lower off the rifle and see if I could duplicate the problem while watching the engagement. If you’re not very eager to do that yourself I recommend calling Geissele.


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    Last edited by Steve Shannon; 02-01-20 at 09:53.

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    Well...now don't I feel like an idiot. Here I thought it was some dire problem....in fact....the hammer pin had worked loose just enough to cause hammer to be tilted.

    Note to self: always check simple things first!!!

    Doh.

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    Update: I'd like to say once I got the pin back in everything was peachy, but .... um....nope. Had the same problem. I carefully inspected the trigger group to make sure I did not screw up and install springs wrong...nope...all is well. But...here is a "detail" I had this problem two more times, but only when shooting my 30 year old Maylasian ammo. All the other .308 I shot today worked, great, including most of the Maylasian stuff. I was intentionally doing mag dumps as fast as I could to see what would happen. But...twice, another weirdo "hammer following BCG."

    I brought the rifle home and now have the BCG out and am thoroughly cleaning, scrubbing and I'm blasting with brake cleaner to remove all the gunk and oil, grease, lube, etc.

    Like I said, I've swapped out many trigger groups. I've shot many AR platforms and never had had this issue.

    It blew through German surplus ammo. I'm not going to waste my Federal ammo testing it out.

    I'll report back as things progress. I dropped a line to LMT to get their take on things.

  8. #8
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    Is a round being picked up and fed when this problem appears or is the chamber empty?


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shannon View Post
    Is a round being picked up and fed when this problem appears or is the chamber empty?

    Yes, the round is stripped off the magazine and fed into the chamber, very tight. I have to really yank on the CH to free the round, which apparently is par for the course on the MWS.

    I get off several shots and then ... round chambered and hammer is not cocked, trigger will not work. I eject the round. I can put it in a mag and it will fire on that same round. I looked up "hammer follows BCG" and ... maybe that is it? I'm not sure, but I did inspect the trigger group very carefully and all springs are properly installed, pins seated, etc. etc.

    I was able to blow through a 20 round magazine of ammo with the cheap Maylasian stuff, several times in fact, no issue. Next mag...twice I had stoppages.

    I loaded up German surplus and blew through 20 rounds of it, no issues.

    A real head scratcher!

  10. #10
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    Advice About Situation with my LMT MWS

    I agree; it’s puzzling.
    If ammunition is fed, then the bcg is moving far enough rearward to force the hammer to hook the disconnector. And I’m sorry I asked if it stripped a round. I see that you addressed that in the first post.
    Here’s an animation of how the standard semiautomatic AR15 trigger works. You can see the disconnector in purple.

    https://youtu.be/xh2FjzVVIZY

    The Geissele SSA moves the sear but the function of the disconnector remains the same. A bad disconnector spring could cause the problem you’re having, but I don’t see how that would be ammunition sensitive. Broken, misaligned , or worn engagement surfaces on the disconnector and hammer could also cause a similar problem.
    I’m sorry; without actually looking at it I don’t know. I would have it open looking at all the engagement surfaces.
    I would really recommend calling Geissele to see what they say.


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    Last edited by Steve Shannon; 02-01-20 at 17:03.

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