Consciousness Cannot Have Evolved

[Mick Boon]

My issue with organized religion is watching how the Preacher, Pastor, or whatever behave in their life away from the Church. Some who have the role of leading a flock turn out to be people who behave unethically in their personal lives. It's a turn off and I shut out people like that. I have learned to separate a relationship with a supreme being away from Man, and focus on a more direct seeking of a spiritual experience. Martin Luther did this partially when he taught that you can have a direct contact with God, without going thru an organized church.

My issue with religion organised or not is that there is NO GOD, never has been and never will be.

[SteyrAUG]

The difference between us is that you are an agnostic , whereas I am a practising atheist.

PS, I think the title of Evangelical Atheist would suit me best …

" Evangelical Atheist
An atheist that combats religion as zealously as evangelicals thrust their religious beliefs on others."

And you are at that magical stage of your existence where you truly believe that will accomplish anything meaningful. I understand your point philosophically, but in terms of meaningful activity it won't gain you much and evangelicals of any kind are only welcomed by their own kind. Get it together in your own head in a way that brings you contentment and move on with life.

[kerplode]

My issue with organized religion is watching how the Preacher, Pastor, or whatever behave in their life away from the Church. Some who have the role of leading a flock turn out to be people who behave unethically in their personal lives. It's a turn off and I shut out people like that.

This was my experience as well, and why as a child, I refused to continue going to church once I looked around and began to notice what absolute shit people the preachers and parishioners all were. Talk up a big pious story on Sunday, then drink and lie and cheat and whore and just be total trash humans the rest of the week.

[THCDDM4]

My issue with religion organised or not is that there is NO GOD, never has been and never will be.

Ah, the hypocrisy. Your certainty at that which cannot be proved as non existent is exactly the same as what you loathe in that which cannot be proved to exist.


For someone who is so certain of things, you are remarkable at displaying the same behavior you loathe in those who are certain of things that do not agree with you, when neither of you can prove existence or non existence of what you are certain about.

It's rather funny seeing the anger in your posts, as what you are angry about is exactly the behavior you are exhibiting against those you are angry at...

[SteyrAUG]

My point is that whatever existed forever is your god. Energy that started the big bang? That energy is your ‘god’. We cant currently prove how, what, why, so people have faith in what makes the most sense to them.

I really don't have "faith" in it. I know there are huge knowledge gaps in real science. I don't fill them in with faith. The only thing I have any faith in is that "we don't know for sure and it is a real probability that we will never survive as a species long enough to know for sure."

Additionally, even if we are actually correct, since no space existed prior to a big bang event we could never go back and observe conditions prior to that event regardless of any technology we might possess in the future.

So I don't have faith in many things beyond the observable and testable. And more importantly, I try not to have dogma so when new evidence comes along that changes previously accepted ideas, my faith isn't challenged.

It would actually be easier for me to accept a vast, endless universe that somehow had no beginning, but then someone discovered our "visible universe" was expanding and that came with a lot of implications, most of which weren't terribly satisfying. I would prefer a steady state, eternal universe that came from "I haven't got a clue" but that doesn't seem to be what we are observing.

[Mick Boon]

And you are at that magical stage of your existence where you truly believe that will accomplish anything meaningful. I understand your point philosophically, but in terms of meaningful activity it won't gain you much and evangelicals of any kind are only welcomed by their own kind. Get it together in your own head in a way that brings you contentment and move on with life.

I know I will not achieve anything meaningful and that does not bother me.

I know religion is hypnosis, and that people in hypnosis will believe whatever they are told no matter how stupid. I'm a hypnotist .

[SteyrAUG]

I know I will not achieve anything meaningful and that does not bother me.

I know religion is hypnosis, and that people in hypnosis will believe whatever they are told. I'm a hypnotist .

HA. I don't believe in hypnosis.

[Hmac]

And you are at that magical stage of your existence where you truly believe that will accomplish anything meaningful. I understand your point philosophically, but in terms of meaningful activity it won't gain you much and evangelicals of any kind are only welcomed by their own kind. Get it together in your own head in a way that brings you contentment and move on with life.

Yeah, that's about it. The only thing that has ever offended me about organized religion is its belief that they need to somehow impose those beliefs on me. I feel the same way about atheism. Evangelism in any form from any group is offensive to me. The arrogance of religious or anti-religious groups that so desperately want me, and others, to ascribe to their belief system is irritating.

[Mick Boon]

Yeah, that's about it. The only thing that has ever offended me about organized religion is its belief that they need to somehow impose those beliefs on me. I feel the same way about atheism. Evangelism in any form from any group is offensive to me. The arrogance of religious or anti-religious groups that so desperately want me, and others, to ascribe to their belief system is irritating.

If you don't like it why do you get involved ?

[Hmac]

If you don't like it why do you get involved ?

I don't get involved. I'm not a member of either group.