Consciousness Cannot Have Evolved

[jpmuscle]

A purveyor of nothingness outside of the physical universe. That's easy to do because the entire existence is based on what one can see, hear and touch. Nothing else has any value, nor is there the inquisitive nature to consider other possibilities.

That’s the entire foundational point of the scientific method.

Otherwise it’s dark ages in Europe with the church holding the monopoly on knowledge and disseminating it as they see fit.




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[OH58D]

Speaking for myself...I'm not anti-god. Prove its existence to me and I'm there. As to religion...yeah. I'm anti-religion. Over the millennia, organized religion has shown itself to be the grossest of perversions of the ideals that it purports to represent. Organized religion = extraordinary hypocrisy. I cannot believe anything it teaches. Organized religion talks the talk, but it simply can NOT bring itself to walk the walk.

I am kind of in the same way of thinking, except I believe there is a Supreme Being or Intellect in the universe, but it's bigger and more expansive than can be imagined. I also think that there could be multiple universes and at some point, all reference points we have in physics gets expanded to new levels.

Organized Religion is a creation of Man - a pre-packaging of God. They all say: "We have the True God over here". Religion takes the infinite and puts it in an easy-to-understand form that keeps everything simple. If it's too abstract or esoteric, you lose the low information "seeker of something". I don't mind hanging with Christians...or atheists - I just have a hard time with people who claim they have all the answers, when their point of reference is no better or worse than mine.

[OH58D]

That’s the entire foundational point of the scientific method.

Otherwise it’s dark ages in Europe with the church holding the monopoly on knowledge and disseminating it as they see fit.

For me organized Religion and the quest for knowledge don't play together very well. I am somewhat of an outsider when it comes to religion because I ask too many questions. A Church is a body of believers and if one of that group asks too many questions, you become a threat.

For me the sciences and a thinking that there could be something in the form of some Supreme Being or God doesn't conflict. The study of the Space Time Continuum, Black Holes, Dark Matter, Multiple Universes, Expanding Universe, etc. are mind blowing things to consider. There is nothing in those studies which preclude some kind of infinite presence that has always existed, even before our universe exploded from the singularity. They also don't point to the existence of a God.

[Hmac]

I am kind of in the same way of thinking, except I believe there is a Supreme Being or Intellect in the universe, but it's bigger and more expansive than can be imagined. I also think that there could be multiple universes and at some point, all reference points we have in physics gets expanded to new levels.

I don't discount the concept, but there is no way of knowing who or what that Supreme Being is, so I just ignore it for the time being, waiting for illumination which may or may not come. One thing I'm certain of...there is no organized religion that understands that Supreme Being any better than I do. So I ignore them too.


eta: I like that notion..."pre-packaging of God". Those hucksters (organized religion) have tried to water the concept down to bite-sized pieces for the masses, forgoing actual knowledge (which they don't have anyway) and substituting dogma and silly ritual that more often is merely self-serving and for the primary purpose of keeping people hooked and the money rolling in.

[Adrenaline_6]

I have a Masters degree in Physical Chemistry. Organic Chemistry was a minor stepping stone on that path. A little later, a year of Biochemistry in medical school gave me a fairly reasonable grounding in the discipline.

Cool. Much respect.

Do you have any rebuttals to this expert synthetic organic chemists issues with your theory?

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y

Speaking for myself...I'm not anti-god. Prove its existence to me and I'm there. As to religion...yeah. I'm anti-religion. Over the millennia, organized religion has shown itself to be the grossest of perversions of the ideals that it purports to represent. Organized religion = extraordinary hypocrisy. I cannot believe anything it teaches. Organized religion talks the talk, but it simply can NOT bring itself to walk the walk.

I see your reason for your frustration and disappointment in organized religion. Saying that, we as humans mess everything up, even religion. It in itself is not bad, just bad people and/or sinners (which we all are) make it that way. Organized religion talks it, we are the ones who don't walk it...but I get it.

[Hmac]

Do you have any rebuttals to this expert synthetic organic chemists issues with your theory?

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y

No, I don't. It's all theoretical, and for each compelling theory there is an equally compelling argument as to why it's bullshit. Hard science has its own dogma problem.

[OH58D]

I don't discount the concept, but there is no way of knowing who or what that Supreme Being is, so I just ignore it for the time being, waiting for illumination which may or may not come. One thing I'm certain of...there is no organized religion that understands that Supreme Being any better than I do. So I ignore them too.


eta: I like that notion..."pre-packaging of God". Those hucksters (organized religion) have tried to water the concept down to bite-sized pieces for the masses, forgoing actual knowledge (which they don't have anyway) and substituting dogma and silly ritual that more often is merely self-serving and for the primary purpose of keeping people hooked and the money rolling in.

Your background in Chemistry is impressive. I have a B.S. in Business Administration, a B.S. in Archaeological Science with a supporting Minor in Pre-Columbian Ceramics, both from the University of Arizona, and an MBA from the University of New Mexico Anderson School of Management. I've also dabbled in Astronomy while an undeclared major. Two Bachelor's Degrees was a tough road, but it was paid for by the US Army. I am grateful for that 4 year ROTC scholarship.

Organized religion is a business, just like any other - and it involves money and control, and it always has. I have managed to separate organized religion from my personal seeking of that Supreme Intellect in the universe. Sometimes I think the late Arthur C. Clarke was onto something with his black monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey, a least considering an external influence in the development of mankind.

[Adrenaline_6]

No, I don't. It's all theoretical, and for each compelling theory there is an equally compelling argument as to why it's bullshit. Hard science has its own dogma problem.

Thanks for your honesty. I don't think this guy is calling it bs, just that there are a lot of holes that aren't being truly addressed and things like time that is seen as making this theory more possible due to all that time is actually a detriment in real life but is also not being taught/addressed.

[Hmac]

Your background in Chemistry is impressive.

Eh. I discovered a few things on that path.

• There's nothing you can really do with a Masters in Physical Chemistry. You need a PhD, and luck finding a non-teaching job that pays anything.
• Chemistry is fun, but Physical Chemistry is more math then chemistry.
• I'm not math-smart enough to be a PhD Physical Chemist at the level necessary to make a difference in anything.
• Medicine proved to be an extremely rewarding path
• As it turned out I'm a better surgeon than I would have been chemist.
• A doctorate in Medicine made a lot more sense for me than a doctorate in Chemistry, and was probably an easier but much longer path.

[MegademiC]

I respect your opinion and your belief, but if you look at the actual numbers and how organic chemistry actually works, your claim of your belief being more plausible as far as numbers and odds go is almost ridiculous...but it is still not disproved, so, likewise, it also cannot be ruled out.

Even the wordage "billions of tries" is misleading. In this theory, no one is trying anything. Nothing is living, therefore, there is no struggle for life to exist. It is organic elements that exist that really "doesn't care" about life at all or have a goal towards anything whatsoever. It just is.

Everything has a goal towards entropy, which is fighting against life... so that would make it happening even more difficult than if things just floated around with no direction.

I have a Masters degree in Physical Chemistry. Organic Chemistry was a minor stepping stone on that path. A little later, a year of Biochemistry in medical school gave me a fairly reasonable grounding in the discipline.

How/why did you decide on Physical Chemistry? Was it something you wanted going into college or decide to go that direction part way through?