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Thread: .357 Magnum. Does it deserve its reputation?

  1. #11
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    There is no "you guys", Uni-Vibe is a one man anti HP and anti FBI testing band. Or a troll.

    My comments are clearly about modern service caliber HP's being very close in terminal performance.

  2. #12
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    I agree modern hollowpoints since the FBI got into testing all function about the same. The difference between one modern bullet and an other WILL NOT make a difference in a gun fight.

    You will win a gun fight based on tactics, shot placement and proper use of cover. I have won many a gun fight using 9mm ball ammo. So don't worry about it.

    .357 mag back in the day was king of the hill. Those facts no longer hold true.

    In addition to the above that I said will win gun fights, I also believe the more times your pistol will go bang before you have to reload. Might matter more, to your winning. Than is you are using 9mm, 40 S&W, etc.

  3. #13
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    Agree with a few of the posters here. "Back in the day" it took sheer velocity to accomplish what modern bullet technology can do today, i.e. adequate expansion with adequate penetration. Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots are good examples of what I'm talking about. Back in the 80's or earlier (even as late as the early to mid 90's) it took screaming velocity to achieve the performance that we now see with non-obscene speed using superior bullet construction.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I agree modern hollowpoints since the FBI got into testing all function about the same. The difference between one modern bullet and an other WILL NOT make a difference in a gun fight.

    You will win a gun fight based on tactics, shot placement and proper use of cover. I have won many a gun fight using 9mm ball ammo. So don't worry about it.

    .357 mag back in the day was king of the hill. Those facts no longer hold true.

    In addition to the above that I said will win gun fights, I also believe the more times your pistol will go bang before you have to reload. Might matter more, to your winning. Than is you are using 9mm, 40 S&W, etc.
    So true. Yoni learned this lesson from fighting in the desert. I learned the same thing by studying forensic data from crimes.

    Everybody that disagrees with us learned their lessons from internet lore, bullet ads, gel testing, FBI protocols, anecdotes, and gun writers.

    Who ya gonna believe? Bullets are bullets.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    So true. Yoni learned this lesson from fighting in the desert. I learned the same thing by studying forensic data from crimes.

    Everybody that disagrees with us learned their lessons from internet lore, bullet ads, gel testing, FBI protocols, anecdotes, and gun writers.

    Who ya gonna believe? Bullets are bullets.
    That's a bold statement about people who disagree with you. It's also very wrong.

    You know a lot more about ballistics than Doctor Gary Roberts?

    You really, really, really need to knock this crap off. Or take it someplace else.

    Last warning. The next time you drop one of these turds of wisdom, you're gone.

  6. #16
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    I want to be clear, I am NOT endorsing 9mm ball as the best round to use in a gun fight.

    We were forced to carry 9mm ball by politics, until a team member shot a terrorist and the round went through and through and traveled on and hit a 8 month pregnant woman in the stomach killing the baby. The next day we were authorized to go to hollowpoints.

    I currently carry in my 9mms 124 +P+ rounds.

    When I go to synagogue, I carry 101 rounds with me. 3 mags are full of the 124 +P+ rounds. The last 2 mags for NATO ball ammo.

    If I go through 3 mags and the fight is still on then I am assuming the bad guys will be behind cover, so I want hot ball to try and push through cover. For at this point in a fight a hit is a hit.

    I will in the future go out and test the Lehigh 65 grain fluted 9mm +P 9mm. If it puts down hogs for me like it has been reported by others. Then this will be my go to 9mm round.

  7. #17
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    Okay. So it was excellent performance with the hollow points available in its day compared to the "others". (Fmj .32, .380, 9mm, .45, .38 super, and .38 special swc/rn/sjhp)

    But now the "others" (9mm and other service calibers) have bullets available that provide similar / same performance at lower velocities.

    Makes sense to me.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    Okay. So it was excellent performance with the hollow points available in its day compared to the "others". (Fmj .32, .380, 9mm, .45, .38 super, and .38 special swc/rn/sjhp)

    But now the "others" (9mm and other service calibers) have bullets available that provide similar / same performance at lower velocities
    .

    Makes sense to me.
    Pretty much sums it up.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  9. #19
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    I agree with others that it got it's reputation back in the day where it was one of the few "controllable" handgun rounds that had enough velocity and weight to give good expansion and penetration. Add in the fact that with revolver ammo, you could design the bullet to more likely open up without worrying about it having to feed in a semi auto.

    I also do believe muzzle blast plays a role as well. Not only psychologically but physically as well when it come to contact range shots. Lot's of cops and citizens get in gunfights/shootings at grappling range. From my experience with handgun suicides the duty calibers just drill a hole through the head. I have seen suicides with 357 magnum on several occasions where it removed large chunks of the head. Several looked far more like a rifle or shotgun suicide.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
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    OIF 1 and 3

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    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  10. #20
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    I wasn't around when 357 was considered king of one shot stops. Ive heard that 38 and 357 were more potent back then and today they're downloaded. Not sure how true that is but looking at stuff from Underwood I can see how 357 could have been viewed as the ultimate one shot stop. Underwood's self defense ammo is around 800ft-lbs of energy in both 125 and 158
    Last edited by Arik; 02-20-20 at 06:51.

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