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Thread: .357 Magnum. Does it deserve its reputation?

  1. #41
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    Absolutely one shot stop. I have personal experience. I was a young lad and owned a 4" GP100 357 Magnum. I believe I was tactically planning to engage an old can, pulled the trigger, OMG forgot my ear pro, and immediately was on a knee and out of the fight.

    It was as they say...a one shot stopper.
    Politician's Prefer Unarmed Peasants

  2. #42
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    If .357 is grouped with the other "duty cartridges" a similar question can be asked of them.

    Have JHP's (A) actually improved "stopping power" or are they (B) better at reducing perforation of bodies, increasing perforation of barriers, and reducing survivability? (Or C, both)

    Perforating barriers can be good, bad, or inconsequential.

    I contend that if a bad guy is of mind to fight to the death a JHP does C. If not, B.

    I also think the overwhelming majority of unknown-assailant, non-Police defensive shootings fall into the "bad guy not of fight to the death mindset."

    My belief is that there is lots of confirmation bias in AAR's regarding pistol bullet performance.

  3. #43
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    I don’t believe the energy numbers listed in ballistics charts are real world accurate. They seem to favor velocity over bullet weight. A typical 9mm and .45acp have similar energy on paper, but the .45 has noticeably more recoil when shot. More recoil on the pistol equals more energy on target in my opinion. Now I will say that shooting a .357 magnum out of a carbine vs a revolver puts it in a different league.

  4. #44
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    It's not about energy, it's about energy transfer to the threat and damage to tissue and organs. That still doesn't guarantee the threat will stop or even slow down.

    We had some bean counters at our agency who touted the 9mm +P+ cartridge, because of the mathematical energy numbers. None of the bean counters worked in the field long enough to understand how the cartridge actually performed. None of the bean counters wanted to have a conversation with field personnel who actually saw people shot with the cartridge.

    Raw data concerning performance in the field is the only math I put any weight on. When conversing about a defensive cartridge, performance in the field far outweighs mathematically energy numbers and theories about how a cartridge "should" perform in the field.
    Train 2 Win

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt Carson View Post
    I don’t believe the energy numbers listed in ballistics charts are real world accurate. They seem to favor velocity over bullet weight.
    Whether those numbers are real-world relevant to terminal effect is up for debate. However, whether they are real world accurate is not. Energy numbers favor velocity, because energy increases exponentially with velocity, but linearly with mass. There have been many attempts to claim relevance of other numbers, such as as momentum or knockout factor. This is done by well-meaning dudes that are capable of basic arithmetic, but have no real understanding of physics. These people have a tendency to insert their own biases and anecdotes.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

  6. #46
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    One area where the 357 shines over other duty calibers is penetration. However extra penetration is not wanted most of the time. Most self defense or duty 357 ammo now a days is made to meet FBI criteria which means they have to keep penetration down. So Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 357 are a little slow but expands to .6 and penetrates 16 inches (Im using generalities, not actual numbers) which isnt much different than 9mm loads. But if you take full house hunting rounds like a Hornday XTP you get a bit less expansion and a bunch more penetration.

    Im betting that the 158 grain loads from years ago fall more in line with the hunting loads of today. Moderate expansion and a shit load of penetration. Compare that to the light weight hollow point 38s and 9mms of the time and you are going to to a marked improvement in performance shooting through limbs and at odd angles.

    A couple guys on my squad got into a shooting over the summer with a woman. Long story short my buddy shot this chick in the shoulder. she had a full side profile to him so the bullet is going in the outside of the arm towards the chest. Round was a 230 grain +P HST fired from a Glock 21 at a distance of about 10 yards. Bullet hit the humerus right at the top where it starts to go into the shoulder joint. Shattered the bone and completely immobilized her right arm but it had very little penetration after and never made it into the chest cavity. Im betting a full house 158 grain 357 would have penetrated more based on what Ive seen it do animal bones.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
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    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    One area where the 357 shines over other duty calibers is penetration. However extra penetration is not wanted most of the time. Most self defense or duty 357 ammo now a days is made to meet FBI criteria which means they have to keep penetration down. So Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 357 are a little slow but expands to .6 and penetrates 16 inches (Im using generalities, not actual numbers) which isnt much different than 9mm loads. But if you take full house hunting rounds like a Hornday XTP you get a bit less expansion and a bunch more penetration.

    Im betting that the 158 grain loads from years ago fall more in line with the hunting loads of today. Moderate expansion and a shit load of penetration. Compare that to the light weight hollow point 38s and 9mms of the time and you are going to to a marked improvement in performance shooting through limbs and at odd angles.

    A couple guys on my squad got into a shooting over the summer with a woman. Long story short my buddy shot this chick in the shoulder. she had a full side profile to him so the bullet is going in the outside of the arm towards the chest. Round was a 230 grain +P HST fired from a Glock 21 at a distance of about 10 yards. Bullet hit the humerus right at the top where it starts to go into the shoulder joint. Shattered the bone and completely immobilized her right arm but it had very little penetration after and never made it into the chest cavity. Im betting a full house 158 grain 357 would have penetrated more based on what Ive seen it do animal bones.
    This stuff?

    https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...-158-gr-xtp#!/
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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    We had some bean counters at our agency who touted the 9mm +P+ cartridge, because of the mathematical energy numbers. None of the bean counters worked in the field long enough to understand how the cartridge actually performed.
    How did it perform?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Yeah. Or something similar.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Lucky Gunner tests it expanded to .53 and penetrated 25 inches on average.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

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