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Thread: Seeking help

  1. #1
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    Seeking help

    I picked up an m4 I built for my son yesterday while at my grandsons birthday. Son says its failing to eject rounds, asked him when this started. He said five years ago. " and he's just telling me about it" anyway the build is

    Upper is a MUR-1
    Lower is a Mur, " VLTOR" Noveske stamped.
    Recoil is a A5 VLTOR.
    BCG is a , LMT enhanced set.
    Rails are CASV -M,
    Sights are Troy HK hooded, style.
    Sporting a VLTOR pinned Gas Block, don't remember which gas tube.
    Gresselle, straight trigger.

    So I've not confirmed via shooting the rifle. I reviewed the Bolt, LMT, see zero signs of wear, chips, dents, etc etc.

    Would I be correct in getting into the gas system next? I'm stumped. I build, I'm a novice, when it comes to you guys here, in fact that's why I'm back.

    Back when I built this was the best of the best stuff to build with. It's clear to me, I screwed something up. This rifle has o 10 exact copy brother rifles, they all run fine.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you guys in advance.

    Dirk

  2. #2
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    Ammo?

    Barrel?

    Buffer weight?

    I don't think sights and trigger and rail matter nearly as much...

  3. #3
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    Sorry, barrels , Noveske Afgan 14.5. Recoil system is VLTOR -A5. Not sure which buffer. Thinking its at least a 2/3. I'll check and advise. Ammo's anything he could find. I provided him ten mags of green tips. That was many years ago. I likey told him to not plink with the green tips, that was to be saved, for that rainy day. Who knows.

    I'll pull the rifle out, and pull the buffer, and advise.

  4. #4
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    Ok, after taking the gun apart, I discovered the recoil system is VLTOR, this one for some reasons not the A-5. Stamdard carbine. It is now an A5. Had two A-5s,in a box on the shelf. Also discovered this thick frog lube, texted my kid, who said he cleaned it and lunes the poop out of it. Boy did he.

    The A-5 is a #2 buffer weight, as you know the buffer is far more robust, longer then the carbine length. Had a heck of a time trying to reattach the MagPul sling piece. Simply put it back together as a complete A5. I'll use the QD attached sling, now.

    No closer to solving the problem. Any thoughts?

    DW

  5. #5
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    I know others have more specific knowledge but I would...

    Clean out the frog lube from the whole system.

    Check your new RE is correctly installed.

    Lightly lube with oil. (Frog lube works but needs to be correctly cleaned, applied and wiped off.)

    Try shooting it with good ammo and test single round lock back.

    Have a standard BCG available to test with as well.

    Too thick frog lube and low powered ammo is likely the problem. You are trying to balance a mid 14.5, non-standard BCG, and a new gas system all at once. Not saying it won't work but the only way to be sure is to check your work and shoot it!

    Dennis.
    Last edited by Dennis; 02-18-20 at 19:19.

  6. #6
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    I would take above posts advice. Ditch the frog lube as it can cause issues if the gun sits. Do a Google search and you will find lots of issues with it.

    If that don't work make sure using good ammo and maybe swap out the bcg just to make sure no issues there. The one in the gun is s great quality one, but that would be my second guess.

  7. #7
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    Do what Dennis said, also.

    How many k rounds on the gun? What ammo are y’all trying to shoot?

    I’ve had a couple older Noveske Afghan barrels with the included Vltor pinned block. I’m fairly confident its not leaking there. Additionally, they have eaten whatever I’ve fed them, with H, H1, and H2 buffers, and Carbine, Tubbs, and even a Rifle spring in a carbine tube(no lockback due to coil bind). With the Colt Carbine spring and H1, they even cycle Wolf steel cased. Haven’t tried it with heavier combos. I’ve not used LMT BCG’s in them.

    So, if it is short-stroking (not locking back on empty, or not picking up the next round in the mag), you have either a gas leak, or a Froglube problem. Ditch the Froglube and replace with real CLP, or pretty much anything that is made for a firearm and does not say “biodegradeable” on the side of it. Check the tip of the gas tube. Is the “bulb” worn off, or worn on one side? Is the gas key on the carrier loose, or is it spraying carbon at the junction? Will the bolt stay extended in the carrier if you put it on a table vertically (clean and lubricated), bolt face down (gas rings)?

    Another cause of “failing to eject” is that it is not extracting or ejecting, which should cause something that looks kinda like a double-feed, but isn’t. Its not clear from your description exactly whether its doing this, or short-stroking. If it is doing this, replace the extractor and/or extractor springs and/or ejector spring. Mistwolf will come along and learn us how to troubleshoot this; I just rebuild bolts periodically or if they’re having trouble. Might as well order a cam pin and gas rings at the same time.
    Last edited by 1168; 02-19-20 at 07:13. Reason: Add

  8. #8
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    Gentleman, thank you. Concur. The reality is simply this. I need to go shoot the rifle, my chase is a fools errand, sons a young man, knows even less about the m4 then me. Hoping to get out to the ranch today, and test fire. My kids, have kids, grandpa gets them on Wed 's. Best job in the world.

    11, and 6, this past Monday. Amazing what I'm re learning from these youngsters.

    Thank you, I'll report what happens.

    Dirk

  9. #9
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    Yes, the amount of frog lube, was unreal. Put a hot lamp directly on the BCG, for 1/2 hour, softening frog Lub.

    I went to frog lube when Will GUNS was marketing it as better then sliced bread. I found the lube to actually be hard like a candy. Was surprised. I've pulled the BCG apart, and cleaned it with good cleaner. Man what a mess. Spent ooo 1/2 hour reviewing the bolt face, extractor under bright light get with a magnifying glass.

    Everything appears gtg. I do have nos bolts I purchased from Noveske, many years ago. I'll bring a spare, plus a nos BCG just in case.

    Agree, vltor Kit, is really really good kit. I have many clone rifles almost exact. Never had an issue. Back in my he day of ammo shortages I too, purchased several cases, for plinking, never an issue.

    Thanks again

    Dirk

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Williams View Post
    Yes, the amount of frog lube, was unreal. Put a hot lamp directly on the BCG, for 1/2 hour, softening frog Lub.

    I went to frog lube when Will GUNS was marketing it as better then sliced bread. I found the lube to actually be hard like a candy. Was surprised. I've pulled the BCG apart, and cleaned it with good cleaner. Man what a mess. Spent ooo 1/2 hour reviewing the bolt face, extractor under bright light get with a magnifying glass.
    Heat Gun! Like $30 at Home Depot and has many uses like forming Kydex, shrinking shrink wrap, and adhesive prep.

    Frog Lube works great if you spend the time cleaning and applying it correctly. However, if used like normal oil lube it will build up and bind up the action. In the end I found it to be too much effort for my long guns. I still use it on my primary duty Glocks.

    Dennis.

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