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Thread: New member with a early XM-177E2 clone

  1. #1
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    New member with a early XM-177E2 clone

    Like many here I've always had a soft spot for the Car-15 after seeing them in SOF magazine and actual use with some Air Force para rescue and combat controllers (one actually had a XM-148 grenade launcher attached). After deciding I had to have one I set about sourcing/ trading parts from a 2/75 Ranger Battalion armorer. This was in 1977 so they still had some originals in inventory although they were slated for turn in.

    The bolt carrier and the bolt are the early chrome plated type with the tapered solid retaining pin rather than the normal cotter pin. Incorrect for this version but that is what was in the donor carbine.

    The lower receiver also dates from that time frame and is marked ORDNANCE DESIGN CO./ SANTA CLARA. CALIF.
    and has a three digit serial number.

    Interestingly this barrel has no markings that I can find so it may have been replaced at some point.

    Everything else looks to be original/ vintage including the nylon sling. Magazine is Colt marked with alloy follower.

    Hopefully the sharp eyed experts will let me know what looks right and what needs fixing:








  2. #2
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    Dang! That looks really, really nice. I'm jealous.

    Very nice example.

  3. #3
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    This is a quote from a Ken Breda off the user groups in another forum, dated July 2, 1997.

    "Ordnance Design Co. aka ORDCO was a small company in Santa Clara CA. in the1970's
    owned and operated by Ed Ryberg (sp). Hence the ER15 modeldesignation. He made sten gun
    recievers and other class 3 stuff. Don't knowwhere he is today.
    The AR15 reciever he made was an investment casting, cast by a firm in So.Cal. and finished by
    him in his shop in Santa Clara,CA. I believe this reciever has the distinction of being the first
    reciever (AR type)to be like the M16 externally. The others to this point were very boxy looking,
    but had all the holes in the right place for the fire control parts. The only problem I know of with
    these recievers (exept for being investment cast) was that the buffer retainer pin hole was not in
    the right place and the buffer took a beating by the pin. The hole should be farther forward so the
    pin doesn't stop the buffer in it's forward position.The buffer should remain incontact with the
    bolt carrier during the entire firing cycle and theretainer should only retain the buffer when the
    recievers are hinged open. "

    That said, what is the forge code on the upper receiver? Can you post a close-up picture of that, the BCG, the buffer tube locking ring, port door, and the FH? Also, is the buffer tube a 2-position? In addition, the BCG on a Model 629/XM177E2 would be the standard phosphate M16 BCG with the split firing pin retaining pin (cotter pin type). It almost appears that the port door is of the A2 type. It does need an A1 type port door. All in all, the evidence does appear to make this a build by someone at some point in its life. They apparently used what was available at the time. Hard to say when the upper was built or by whom. My guess is that it is a later built upper assembly. Not really sure since I cannot see the AR in person.

    Here is the type of port door it should have.


    This is my XM177E2 clone I built a few years ago.

    "A Bad Day At The Range Is Better Than A Great Day Working"

    USMC Force Recon 1978-1984
    US Air Force Res. 1995-2004 (Air Transportation)
    M16/AR15 shooter since 1978, gun collector and AR builder since 2004

  4. #4
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    Hello and welcome OP! THAT, is a nice rifle! Nice tiger stripes and BHP too.
    Good night Chesty...wherever you are.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the comments and input.
    Renegade04-
    The info on the lower was spot on. I picked that receiver up from the maker in Santa Clara in early 1977. At that time he was operating out of his private residence. The info on the buffer retaining pin placement is also correct and you can see the effects on the buffer face. At some point several years ago the detent on the ejection port door stopped holding it closed and I replaced it without realizing (until you pointed it out here) that the replacement was a different type. Crap! I will try and find another correct one and a more correct vintage bolt carrier group. The upper is as I received/ acquired it so it wasn't a later build. With the exception of that replaced port door it hasn't received any upgrades. I have no idea where the armorer sourced the parts but I don't think anybody was reproducing these CAR parts back then as far as I know. That said who knows what a depot level arms shop could manufacture or put together. I'm wondering if they cut down a standard barrel hence no markings?

    ETA: I just noticed a site selling original de-milled 1970's CAR-15 parts kits that have many of the same markings as mine (C/H forge mark, C marked front sight base etc.)

    Here are the pics you asked for:

    No other markings I can find






















    artoter-Glad you like the set up. That BHP was actually captured in Vietnam after the Tet Offensive in 1968. I got it from the vet who was a advisor to a South Vietnamese Ranger battalion. He gave me the whole story on how he acquired it. I would love to know where the dead NVA guy got it!

  6. #6
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    The CH forge code upper receiver indicates that it is from the 1974-82 time frame. The buttstock, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, locking ring, and handguards appear to be Colt. The barrel, could have very well been a 16" originally, and possibly a Colt barrel, but no way to validate that. It is a good looking weapon. AR15SPORT has A1 port doors (https://ar15sport.com/product/a1-eje...port-door-kit/). Brownells has them too (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...rod124474.aspx).
    "A Bad Day At The Range Is Better Than A Great Day Working"

    USMC Force Recon 1978-1984
    US Air Force Res. 1995-2004 (Air Transportation)
    M16/AR15 shooter since 1978, gun collector and AR builder since 2004

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade04 View Post
    The CH forge code upper receiver indicates that it is from the 1974-82 time frame. The buttstock, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, locking ring, and handguards appear to be Colt. The barrel, could have very well been a 16" originally, and possibly a Colt barrel, but no way to validate that. It is a good looking weapon. AR15SPORT has A1 port doors (https://ar15sport.com/product/a1-eje...port-door-kit/). Brownells has them too (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...rod124474.aspx).
    That all makes sense. Big thanks for the port door info. I'll pick one up ASAP. My old LE agency had some 1033 program rifles including some early M-16A1's (even some XM-16E1's!). I'll try and see if I can swap out some parts there as well if they haven't turned them in.

    Mike

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