ROTC Basic Camp - Fort Knox 1978

[OH58D]

The scopes may have been a U.S.-produced Leatherwood Realist 4X or 6X ART Scope.


http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...6a1-art-scope/

They could be, I just don't remember a lot about them. If you look at the pic, there was some kind of rubberized cover over the eye piece end. Even after nearly 42 years, I don't remember having to do any adjusting with them, or if it was, it was minimal. We used them for a week that first summer, and I was more concerned about cheating and hiding the numbers on my helmet hidden by foliage to prevent my "death".

[RWH24]

July 1978 I just graduated from the POLICE Academy and starting on Midnite shift. 11p-7a. Ford Torino, 1975 with Flashing pancake lights and a Federal Wind Up Siren. No AM/FM allowed in car. Drive windows down AC on. 38 spec 158gr LRN on loops or drop box. No Speedloaders, No Magnums.

Ft Wolters Mineral Wells, Tx.
At Addison, Tx. ADS, I learned on the TH-55, looked like a Dragonfly. Full fuel and 2 big boys onboard, you had to scoot lightly on the skids until you burned enough fuel to hover on a Texas Hot and Humid Summer Day.

[sinister]

I taught Army ROTC at Texas A&M from 2015-2019. Explaining to the kids about the differences then-and-now was interesting.

I recall Advance Camp was done at Lewis, Riley, and Bragg, with Basic at Knox. The kids at Bragg and some select others did one of two jump school classes, run by 5th Group.

A very few of us went to Benning for Ranger school in lieu of camp, but eventually that ended since fellas dropped or re-cycled might not have received camp credit, or got back into fall semester too late to graduate from college on schedule.

[sinister]

The scopes may have been a U.S.-produced Leatherwood Realist 4X or 6X ART Scope.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...6a1-art-scope/

I believe they were simple (cheap) Weaver K4X scopes as part of the TRAINFIRE system. You were supposed to read the numbers pinned or stenciled to the other guys' helmet covers.

[ABNAK]

I taught Army ROTC at Texas A&M from 2015-2019. Explaining to the kids about the differences then-and-now was interesting.

I recall Advance Camp was done at Lewis, Riley, and Bragg, with Basic at Knox. The kids at Bragg and some select others did one of two jump school classes, run by 5th Group.

A very few of us went to Benning for Ranger school in lieu of camp, but eventually that ended since fellas dropped or re-cycled might not have received camp credit, or got back into fall semester too late to graduate from college on schedule.

A good friend of mine is a retired SGM from 5th Group. He was in Group when they were still at Bragg and then they moved to Campbell in like '86 (?). He black-hatted at least one ROTC jump school at Bragg. Imagine Long-Tabbers dealing with ROTC cadets!

FWIW I went to jump school in Panama at Ft. Sherman. 3/7th SFG ran ours. Dogged us out pretty good and I thought the PT was harder than Benning OSUT but we were all active-duty guys, no ROTC cadets. Those SF black-hats were a good bunch of dudes, and while they played the game they were pretty cool nonetheless.

[ramairthree]

Cool memories.

The pickle suit was on its way out when I went in and I would rarely see people in them as it was still authorized until worn out. Decades later I would be wearing light weight BDUs and OD jungle boots the day before they expired and ACUs became the norm. And retiring in green Class As before they were phased out and most had already converted to blues.

I think “class 10” was the summer ranger school class that might have cadets in it.
But it ended around 87 or 88 or so. Friends went to ranger school with cadets in their class and all bemoaned that slot.
A friend later on in my active duty life had done it as a cadet before he went 11A to 18A.

I don’t entirely understand the different ROTC scenarios available now. And there were lots of changes over the years.

This thread jogs a weird memory for me I had not really thought about for about thirty years.

There seem to have been numerous changes to ROTC.

When I was active duty I had applied and had to interview. The LTC PMS was a bad ass old Infantry Officer that had ODA time in VN plus flight school after. The SGM was a bad ass old 101st, LRRP, and SF type. The kind of guys you could feel quality exuding from each pore despite being a decade past their peak and wanted to work for and learn from. I was told if I got a three or four year scholarship I was exempt from basic, would do advanced, would keep my active duty rank in the reserve unit I was joining, and then have a commission in my reserve unit My last two years of college, then go on active duty after graduation. It sounded great. I got a scholarship. It was only a three year but still seemed like a good deal. I was told for a guy coming off first enlistment with no college I was lucky to get that.

When I ETS’d and got to college, the PMS was instead a turd quartermaster Officer, and a bigger turd name tape/us army only was the SGM just coming on board. The kind of guys that just seem shady. They were not going to exempt me and I would do the whole four year thing as a cadet instead of the prior service thing.
But...
This was revealed to me little by little as the semester unfolded as I kept having to do stuff I was supposed to be exempt from. They were phrasing it as to be a help but it was all underhanded and misleading. They then demanded that I quit my reserve unit, and other stuff that seemed not right, before the end of the semester and....

I had the GI Bill and decided to hell with the scholarship. When I told them they were not meeting the program I had been given, and I was done, they said it was discretionary and that I didn’t understand the favor they were doing for me for my career development and I should not drop. In a very condescending manner and with a between the lines unspoken F you we’ll do whatever we want and you will take it.

To me it seemed they were going out of their way to F me over, I was young and hot headed and feeling pretty F’d over at this point and replied -I am for sure done and don’t need career advice from a zero badge supply sergeant biggest turd of an E9 I had ever seen and a tabless quartermaster officer. And thus ended my less than a semester of ROTC experience. I was assured I was unsuited for the military, would likely fail out of college, etc, etc. There was a whole sliminess vibe to these two, a whole sense of off.

I really wish it had gone the way I was told. I have no idea what their motivations were. The O3 Engineer Officer and O3 Infantry Officer that were both there, both airborne/ranger qualified, later saw Me on campus and said sorry you got hosed, but both declined to comment on why as they felt professionally obligated not to. I’m not sure if until I signed for it, he could give it someone else and wanted me to quit, or they just wanted to screw me over, or something weirder. I was looking like a taller, ruggeder version of Tom Cruise in those days. They did verify it was discretionary and what I was told could have applied. A year or two later there were rumors of a forced retirement of an E9 regarding misuse of funds, and some Boy Scout troop leader issues with an O5 retiring in disgrace and in the hospital on suicide watch.

On the other hand, a loud mouthed, hot headed young E6 with a strong sense of right and wrong, no OCS, no ROTC, and no service academy graduated college and got a USAR direct commission to O1, went on active duty, went to OBC, got an RA commission when he pinned on captain, got additional free education, was selected for nominative command SMU positions before he was in the grade for them, and decided to retire instead about 7 months before pinning on BZ O6.

I learned some very key military and leadership lessons from a failed, Uncompleted semester or ROTC that served me well for nearly two decades as an officer,

Don’t do slimy shit, don’t F your guys over, trust your vibes on people, there are lots of rules you can blow off that don’t really matter and can get waived, there is a often a better way you can pull off, and there are not really any adverse consequences to telling slimy turds to F off despite rank or position. In fact, people will seek you out to do hard stuff, trust you, and give you a lot of leeway. But I suspect those may not actually be the lessons commissioning programs are trying to instill.

[OH58D]

I taught Army ROTC at Texas A&M from 2015-2019. Explaining to the kids about the differences then-and-now was interesting.

I recall Advance Camp was done at Lewis, Riley, and Bragg, with Basic at Knox. The kids at Bragg and some select others did one of two jump school classes, run by 5th Group.

A very few of us went to Benning for Ranger school in lieu of camp, but eventually that ended since fellas dropped or re-cycled might not have received camp credit, or got back into fall semester too late to graduate from college on schedule.

The numbered helmet covers were what we used, but just one color in 1978. I cheated and put an abundance of Kentucky wildflowers and grass on mine to hide those numbers. I did pretty good at Basic camp and they gave me a trophy, and a slot at Fort Benning for Jump School. I went right from Basic Camp to three weeks at Benning. It was fun, just too much running for my tastes.

The following Summer I did advanced camp at Fort Lewis, Washington.

[officerX]

Very cool! I was 3 months old then, born in Massachusetts. I now live in Frankfort, KY, just over an hour from there.

[Caduceus]

Get a hair cut, ya damn hippy!

(sorry, my dad leaked out of my brain there).

Cool pics - my dad did basic at Ft Dix around 72; OCS a few years later. Lots of similarities in those pics - faded colors, the standard OD, black leather boots, and yeah, the long hair (by today's standards).

Thanks for sharing.

[mpddoug162]

Cadet command based out of ft Knox has now modified advanced camp for this years cadets. It’s going to be organized along the lines of home schooling due to the virus. It’s going to be interesting how that works out and what the end product looks like.