The necessity of a light on an EDC pistol

[SeriousStudent]

Just an FYI for our viewers at home. When you get a warning and an infraction, it does not mean you get to open the same snotty debate via PM's.

Please carry on.

[RHINOWSO]

This thread summed up in a photograph.

[yoni]

Training issue. And if your guys are so poorly trained that they can’t keep their weapons pointed in the right direction, then the flashlight attached to it is not the problem.

JoeA said the cops in his jurisdiction got WML taken away after multiple incidents.

Training issue, really?

How many cops struggle to qualify with just their damn pistol in daylight? A bunch. How many cops qualify on the low end of qualifying a whole bunch more. How many cops are C+ to B- shooters a bunch more.
How many cops are solid A-A+ shooters a small minority. I used school grading so everyone could understand. I know cops that every qualifying have to go to remedial shooting in order to qualify they don't shoot again till the next time to qualify.

So don't talk about training, because cops are not shooters for the most part.

Shooters are Special Ops guys that shoot and shoot day in and day out. They can have a WML when ever they want.

[D_M]

JoeA said the cops in his jurisdiction got WML taken away after multiple incidents.

Training issue, really?

How many cops struggle to qualify with just their damn pistol in daylight? A bunch. How many cops qualify on the low end of qualifying a whole bunch more. How many cops are C+ to B- shooters a bunch more.
How many cops are solid A-A+ shooters a small minority. I used school grading so everyone could understand. I know cops that every qualifying have to go to remedial shooting in order to qualify they don't shoot again till the next time to qualify.

So don't talk about training, because cops are not shooters for the most part.

Shooters are Special Ops guys that shoot and shoot day in and day out. They can have a WML when ever they want.

So what you’re saying is cops have a lack of training.

[jesuvuah]

I will throw in my . 02.

First off, this, just like anything in self defense, is a very personal decision.

I do not ccw with a wml. I do carry a handheld light however. I have assessed my situation and have come to that decision.

Of course, I have an attached garage, I have motion activated lighting around my exterior and a security system.

I have done low light training and personally, don't think that in a legitimate self defense situation a light is needed... Sure it is a useful tool, but probably not actually needed. I would also say the same thing about night sights. My eyes also seem to have above average capabilities at night though.

I do keep a light on my hd guns, and when I venture out in the woods at night, I open carry guns with lights.

I will also say, where I live, a bear is just as likely of a threat as a human.

My conclusion, if you want to run a light, train with it and do it, but don't feel like you have to because someone else does it. After all, to really be cool, your edc routine would be nods and IR

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[Ron3]

So what you’re saying is cops have a lack of training.

Yes, it's a dose of "realville."

Most need more training than they get. Many WILL NOT get it from they're department NOR will they get it on they're own. Those guys probably should not be issued a WML.

I agree it needs to be offered by the department with training or by request from the Officer or allow them to purchase and use it themselves if they desire.

A blanket issue of WML's (and proper holster of course) without proper training and proof of proficiency is not a good idea. I'm pretty sure that's what Yoni is saying.

Edited to add: I was just assisting an Officer cleaning his Glock 22 the other day. Because he doesn't know how to remove the striker assembly and heard it was possible. When we were done and he chambered a round, he wasn't sure if it went in the chamber so he unloaded and loaded again. I told him about the loaded chamber indicator and press checks. He'd never known about either. Been a a cop about 20 years. His Gen 4 Glock has a little rust towards the end of the slide. Yea, he's issued a WML. And he very nearly flagged me while removing the round from the chamber when we started. I would consider him an "average" cop as far as training based on the many dozens I've gotten to know over the years.

Another one, different shift, wants me to show him how to take apart an AR15. I told him and showed him a video. He said he'd never taken down his personal AR because he didn't know how. Didn't know how to even separate the upper from the lower. He's issued a rifle kept in the squad car. They are not very reliable, either. ("custom" rifles)

I could go on, these are just recent examples. The number of highly trained and self-trained cops, especially those into fighting and guns and in-shape, is a small percentage. Most of those guys are the ones who end up on SWAT teams.

[26 Inf]

Yes, it's a dose of "realville."

Most need more training than they get. Many WILL NOT get it from they're department NOR will they get it on they're own. Those guys probably should not be issued a WML.

I agree it needs to be offered by the department with training or by request from the Officer or allow them to purchase and use it themselves if they desire.

A blanket issue of WML's (and proper holster of course) without proper training and proof of proficiency is not a good idea. I'm pretty sure that's what Yoni is saying.

Edited to add: I was just assisting an Officer cleaning his Glock 22 the other day. Because he doesn't know how to remove the striker assembly and heard it was possible. When we were done and he chambered a round, he wasn't sure if it went in the chamber so he unloaded and loaded again. I told him about the loaded chamber indicator and press checks. He'd never known about either. Been a a cop about 20 years. His Gen 4 Glock has a little rust towards the end of the slide. Yea, he's issued a WML. And he very nearly flagged me while removing the round from the chamber when we started. I would consider him an "average" cop as far as training based on the many dozens I've gotten to know over the years.

Another one, different shift, wants me to show him how to take apart an AR15. I told him and showed him a video. He said he'd never taken down his personal AR because he didn't know how. Didn't know how to even separate the upper from the lower. He's issued a rifle kept in the squad car. They are not very reliable, either. ("custom" rifles)

I could go in, these are just recent examples. The number of highly trained and self-trained cops, especially those into fighting and guns and in-shape, is a small percentage. Most of those guys are the ones who end up on SWAT teams.

Ron3, Most agencies do not want officers doing anything to their issued pistols beyond operator approved cleaning. They want detail stripping to be done by an agency armorer or other approved person.

[D_M]

Ron3, Most agencies do not want officers doing anything to their issued pistols beyond operator approved cleaning. They want detail stripping to be done by an agency armorer or other approved person.

Those are agency issues.

I'm fairly certain the OP was never asking about a duty weapon.

[Ron3]

Those are agency issues.

I'm fairly certain the OP was never asking about a duty weapon.

Yes, you are right, I forgot the subject of the thread.

[MountainRaven]

The next logical step from, "You shouldn't have a weapon light because other people don't have the training to use it," is...

"You shouldn't have a gun because other people don't have the training to use it."