The necessity of a light on an EDC pistol

[jrcii]

Hello All,

I recently picked up a Hellcat that is going to replace my Shield as my EDC gun (after learning in a class that I just can't shoot the Shield). There aren't a ton of light bearing holsters available for the Hellcat so I started thinking of going without a light/laser. When I'm at home I have other (lighted) options available to me so the Hellcat would really only be used when I'm away from home. And, truth be told, I don't go out much at night. So, I'm thinking that holster availability and comfort is more important than mounting a light.

Any thoughts on the necessity of a light?

Thanks,

JRC

[26 Inf]

The general response is going to be you need the light.

A weapon mounted light, or a handheld light, will usually front light a target enough that nite sights aren't really necessary. Plus a light gives you the advantage of positive target identification. (Does not mean nite sights aren't needed - they are IMO)

Lights are a plus, but if the light is on a weapon that you left at home because of comfort, it does you no good. You have to be honest with yourself about what you are willing to carry. If you've been carrying the Shield with a light/laser, why wouldn't you do the same with the Hellcat?

Not trying to be a dick, but knowing full well how this will sound - I'm a little concerned that you say the Hellcat is replacing the Shield as your EDC because you found out in a class you can't shoot the Shield.

Were you EDC'ing without knowing your capabilities with the Shield?

Have you actually shot the Hellcat?

What exactly was your problem with the Shield?

Could you give us a description of the class and the efforts made to square you away?

I'm asking all this so you can be sure you aren't looking for a hardware solution to a software problem. There are pistols that aren't a pleasure to shoot, and that cause significant numbers of folks problems, but in my experience the Shield isn't one of them.

AS far as holsters go, this guy might be worth a look: https://dalefrickeholsters.com/produ...ng-side-carry/

[jrcii]

Those are excellent points and you're right to bring them up. Let me try to redeem myself a bit. I put about 500 rounds through the Shield when I got it and it seemed fine at the range.

I was at Ayoob's MAG 40 class when a Freedom Munitions reload (I have no problem calling them out after the way they treated me, but that's another story ) had a case head rupture and blew the extractor out of my P320. My backup gun was the Shield. Under the stress of the class I just found out that I couldn't get the level of accuracy out of the Shield that I wanted. And, the trigger is just crap. It just put more doubt in my mind than I'm comfortable with.

Before I bought the HC, I shot the P365, P365XL, G43, and XDs and the HC felt the best to me.

Furthermore to my post I should say that a flashlight is always part of my EDC gear.

JRC

The general response is going to be you need the light.

A weapon mounted light, or a handheld light, will usually front light a target enough that nite sights aren't really necessary. Plus a light gives you the advantage of positive target identification. (Does not mean nite sights aren't needed - they are IMO)

Lights are a plus, but if the light is on a weapon that you left at home because of comfort, it does you no good. You have to be honest with yourself about what you are willing to carry. If you've been carrying the Shield with a light/laser, why wouldn't you do the same with the Hellcat?

Not trying to be a dick, but knowing full well how this will sound - I'm a little concerned that you say the Hellcat is replacing the Shield as your EDC because you found out in a class you can't shoot the Shield.

Were you EDC'ing without knowing your capabilities with the Shield?

Have you actually shot the Hellcat?

What exactly was your problem with the Shield?

Could you give us a description of the class and the efforts made to square you away?

I'm asking all this so you can be sure you aren't looking for a hardware solution to a software problem. There are pistols that aren't a pleasure to shoot, and that cause significant numbers of folks problems, but in my experience the Shield isn't one of them.

AS far as holsters go, this guy might be worth a look: https://dalefrickeholsters.com/produ...ng-side-carry/

[Triple X]

Those are excellent points and you're right to bring them up. Let me try to redeem myself a bit. I put about 500 rounds through the Shield when I got it and it seemed fine at the range.

I was at Ayoob's MAG 40 class when a Freedom Munitions reload (I have no problem calling them out after the way they treated me, but that's another story ) had a case head rupture and blew the extractor out of my P320. My backup gun was the Shield. Under the stress of the class I just found out that I couldn't get the level of accuracy out of the Shield that I wanted. And, the trigger is just crap. It just put more doubt in my mind than I'm comfortable with.

Before I bought the HC, I shot the P365, P365XL, G43, and XDs and the HC felt the best to me.

Furthermore to my post I should say that a flashlight is always part of my EDC gear.

JRC

Some excellent points to ponder here.
I'll just add that my Shield 9 1.0 was GREATLY improved by an Apex trigger and night sights.

[RWH24]

Since being retired 12 years after a 30 year career as a Patrol LEO, WML's were not much of an option and holsters less. Always had a small handheld light on my belt and the SL-20 for HD use. We all had night sights on our issued Sig P226 pistols. I have always shot with my support hand first finger on the front of the trigger guard. Kinda hard to do this with a light mounted there. In my practice, both dry and live fire, I use a WML. I am finding it easier but my old wrist just does not like the twist downward thumb on the left side of the frame. I am a 1911 shooter/was and the support thumb stands tall and proud on the support hand.
Back to the WML issue, while I find the need, I am not comfortable yet with it. We don't venture out at night much so daytime EDC is nude of a WML. Handheld is a PRO TAC 2L by Streamlight. There again, in early LEO light training, handheld light was held arms length away from the body, not held supporting the strong hand. High Left light saved my bacon 1 dark night when a non LEO loving individual with a shotgun took a shot at the light.

I did break myself of the FBI crouch and draw a 6 shooter, so maybe I can learn my EDC with a WML.

[RWH24]

Some excellent points to ponder here.
I'll just add that my Shield 9 1.0 was GREATLY improved by an Apex trigger and night sights.

AMEN to that. I did not add the APEX trigger shoe to my Shield9 but did my M&P FS.

[daddyusmaximus]

I ha strong thoughts here. Then again a lot of people do, and not every one will agree, but here they are...

1. I don't think the small micro guns are a good choice to begin with. They limit the magazine size, and they don't really allow for the same level of grip you can get with a full size gun. Like I said, not everyone will agree, but I shoot a lot better when my pinky isn't hanging off the gun. I can control the recoil better, I'm more accurate, and quite a bit quicker. All good things in a gunfight. A proper holster, belt, and cover garment makes even a scrawny guy capable of carrying a full size gun in a modern word where most people have their faces in their phones... Most times it really is as easy as getting at-shirt one size larger.

2. I feel every defensive weapon (hand gun or long gun) needs a WML. This is a given. It's a tool for defending life, and may be called on to take one. The ability to identify your target must be 100%, and we can never be sure of when and where that may happen, or under what lighting conditions...

3. You still need a hand held daily carry light. You'll use it a lot more than the firearm. You should never unholster the firearm to use a light, but you may need it should the WML fail.

4. If you can't find a pre-made holster, you can get one made. Look around. You should be able to find someone who makes kydex holsters, or knife sheaths. I had my knife sheath guy do me up a holster for my Glock 45/TRL7 when I couldn't find one I liked. I even took him the pancake loops I like from my normal old Bravo Concealment holster, and he made the grommets spaced to match so they would fit.

I daily a Glock 45/TLR7. Full size gun, full size grip, full size capacity, weapon mounted light, outside the waist holster @ 3 o'clock. Never a problem.

Don't know if this will help, but it's how I see it.

[Dennis]

Have you trained in handheld flashlight techniques?

I have lights on all my pistols now but I carried just fine for 15 years before WMLs became common.

You decide on your own carry situation and more options = more better.

I like that you found issues in training and then worked to correct them. I don't have the luxury of switching weapon systems on a whim so I would agree with others and say to try and always put more energy into the software than the hardware.

Dennis.

[MountainRaven]

You should 100% absolutely, positively have a hand-held light. Period. There's literally no excuse not to. They are excellent defensive tools. Unlike a gun or a knife, you can carry them onto an airplane and pretty much literally anywhere else on the planet. It also has plenty of uses outside of shooting at people or illuminating possible threats.

I would also get a weapon mounted light.

[L-2]

No questions from me; just my thoughts/opinions, if not for the OP, for anyone else.

If you want to go with new hardware, there's always a person who's going to want to change to something else. Gun makers come out with something new/different every year. As seen on these forums, there will always be someone getting the latest brand & model out there; or if not, going from one brand & model to another brand & model. For the OP, for now, if you are going out at night, put a weapon light onto that P320, get a holster for the combo, and gear-up for your mission, which might be walking the dog around the block. I'll also mention consider going back to the S&W Shield as maybe it just needs a few more thousand rounds of practice through it &/or adjusting one's expectations for these smaller-than-a-P320 guns. The P320 was the main gun for that class before it broke.

Weapon lights have been out for years now, but still don't have blanket approval for all LE agencies, even though you'd think all professional gun carriers would be using them by now. Also, there are handguns out there which won't have a light and holster made for them. The default is to stay proficient or get proficient with using a handheld light (old school stuff). In fact, my LE training was to also have a handheld light, either for backup lighting should the weapon light fail, or those times when drawing a firearm wasn't justified, but a flashlight was needed for whatever reason.

For now, the decision was made to go with a new Springfield Hellcat. It's going to take some time to locate a mounted light and a holster to go with it (maybe an internet search will disclose five lights and five holsters, right now, but I don't think so). For others out there, do consider your total wants/needs at the entire system-level. If you want/need a pistol with a weapon light and a holster, Identify all three exist and are available before buying. Otherwise, you can be in for constant internet searches and purchases until all 3 items are put together. At this time, then more training begins to get used to how all 3 items and you work together. I'll say it in this paragraph, you may never find the perfect Hellcat/light/holster combination as the gun is new, but not as popular as something like a Glock, which is probably a standard in popular use.

Being an old-guy, using a handheld light with a handgun is a semi-advanced stage of training and skill (not usually part of anybody's concealed carry qualification at the local level). What has changed for the good is that there are several great handheld lights now on the market. Nobody has to carry a 4-D-cell Maglite anymore, which weren't all that bright compared to most of the pocket clipped flashlights now on the market.

At least, hopefully, on this forum, we're not going to get any or many of those posts from the old guys who'll never use a light with a handgun for fear of becoming a target in the dark. We're not talking about being a soldier walking around at night in sniper territory. We're not even talking about entering an unlit building to search for someone with no particular reason to believe he/she would have a firearm at all (but might/could). And don't even start with the fear of pointing a gun at a non-threat-famiily-member in a dark house; come on (back to the handheld light &/or training & trigger-control).