77gr Nosler CC load?

[Wormydog1724]

I've been away from M4C for awhile. Glad to see a farily recent 77gr thread and markm and others still dropping knowledge.

I've been using 21.6gr h322 with cci450 (and/or cci41) with 77gr CC and/or SMK. From my KAC LPR Mod 2 18" 1:7 the everything has been good with mv around 2700 (I think, been awhile since I've chrono'd to be honest), and slightly better than MOA. With all of this 22.8gr talk, I may try to run mine on up and see if the groups stay tight. but...

The dilema I'm facing is my 8# jug of H322 getting lighter and lighter and I have not been able to source any h322 replacement.

I have several other 8# jugs of different powders on hand but none of them seem ideal for this application.

I have AA2230-C (old militarys surplus powder that uses same load data as AA2460), AA2200, CFE223, H4350, H4198, CFEBLK.

I know the H4350, H4198, CFEBLK, and AA2200 aren't going to work here. Those are for my 6.5CM and 6.8SPC

I've seen some 77gr loads with CFE223 and AA2460 tho. I'd like to give them a try. I am going to shoot my LPR in more matches this year and the fear of running out of H322 without a ready backup load is a scary thought.

I guess I could always buy more powder of a different type if in stock somewhere, TAC, Varget, 8208XBR, StaBall, maybe one of the RL variaties. But being able to use something I already have onhand would be nice.

[markm]

We've been getting a rash of popped primers lately. I used to be able to go hotter with H322 and Wolf Primers than I have been able to go recently. I'm backing down to at or under max for a minute because digging primers out of ARs is getting really old.

As far as powder goes. We've been running vihta vourhi N135 as a direct H322 substitute since we found some around $35 per pound. That's way cheaper than the Hodgedon powders are selling lately.

[454308]

Mark are your issues strictly with new production 41's. I've been working on a case of 41's from about 6 years ago and have not had any issues getting single digit sd's, I just picked up a new production case of 41's so maybe I need to rework loads when I start using them.

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[BobinNC]

I've been away from M4C for awhile. Glad to see a farily recent 77gr thread and markm and others still dropping knowledge.

I've been using 21.6gr h322 with cci450 (and/or cci41) with 77gr CC and/or SMK. From my KAC LPR Mod 2 18" 1:7 the everything has been good with mv around 2700 (I think, been awhile since I've chrono'd to be honest), and slightly better than MOA. With all of this 22.8gr talk, I may try to run mine on up and see if the groups stay tight. but...

The dilema I'm facing is my 8# jug of H322 getting lighter and lighter and I have not been able to source any h322 replacement.

I have several other 8# jugs of different powders on hand but none of them seem ideal for this application.

I have AA2230-C (old militarys surplus powder that uses same load data as AA2460), AA2200, CFE223, H4350, H4198, CFEBLK.

I know the H4350, H4198, CFEBLK, and AA2200 aren't going to work here. Those are for my 6.5CM and 6.8SPC

I've seen some 77gr loads with CFE223 and AA2460 tho. I'd like to give them a try. I am going to shoot my LPR in more matches this year and the fear of running out of H322 without a ready backup load is a scary thought.

I guess I could always buy more powder of a different type if in stock somewhere, TAC, Varget, 8208XBR, StaBall, maybe one of the RL variaties. But being able to use something I already have onhand would be nice.

Hodgdon Benchmark is in stock https://shop.hodgdon.com/hodgdon-benchmark/

Benchmark is just a touch slower than H322 by about 1 grain. But it is also an extreme powder and very temp stable.

[markm]

Mark are your issues strictly with new production 41's. I've been working on a case of 41's from about 6 years ago and have not had any issues getting single digit sd's, I just picked up a new production case of 41's so maybe I need to rework loads when I start using them.

I never shot many if any 41s before. My guess is the new ones are super hot, but I don't have any reference.

[Wormydog1724]

Hodgdon Benchmark is in stock https://shop.hodgdon.com/hodgdon-benchmark/

Benchmark is just a touch slower than H322 by about 1 grain. But it is also an extreme powder and very temp stable.

Yep, I know there's probably some powders out there in stock that can work with 77gr loads, I'm just trying to be cheap and use up an 8# I already have on-hand. I need to see exactly how much H322 I have left, it might be enough to get me through this shooting 'season' and hopefully some more H322 will pop up in the meantime.

Looking at the 2023 Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart it looks like the burn rates for the powders I have on-hand are in this order:

• CFE-BLK (too fast)
• AA2200 (too fast)
• H4198 (probably still too fast)
• H322 (I use this with 77gr SMK/CC at 21.6-21.8gr)
• AA2460 (haven't used; right next to IMR8208 XBR on the chart and faster than TAC, slower than Benchmark)
• Varget (I don't have Varget but I know the 24gr load is kind of universally good, tried in the past and didn't meter well in my Dillon 550B)
• CFE223 (slower than Varget, but I am using an 18" barrel so maybe still ok burn rate and not too slow? also heard it is temp sensitive)

Tomorrow is supposed to be good weather and if I don't night coyote hunt tonight I'll try to get some test loaded up with A2460 and CFE223. Then I'll know for sure.

[m1a_scoutguy]

Yep, I know there's probably some powders out there in stock that can work with 77gr loads, I'm just trying to be cheap and use up an 8# I already have on-hand. I need to see exactly how much H322 I have left, it might be enough to get me through this shooting 'season' and hopefully some more H322 will pop up in the meantime.

Looking at the 2023 Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart it looks like the burn rates for the powders I have on-hand are in this order:

• CFE-BLK (too fast)
• AA2200 (too fast)
• H4198 (probably still too fast)
• H322 (I use this with 77gr SMK/CC at 21.6-21.8gr)
• AA2460 (haven't used; right next to IMR8208 XBR on the chart and faster than TAC, slower than Benchmark)
• Varget (I don't have Varget but I know the 24gr load is kind of universally good, tried in the past and didn't meter well in my Dillon 550B)
• CFE223 (slower than Varget, but I am using an 18" barrel so maybe still ok burn rate and not too slow? also heard it is temp sensitive)

Tomorrow is supposed to be good weather and if I don't night coyote hunt tonight, I'll try to get some tests loaded up with A2460 and CFE223. Then I'll know for sure.

Maybe an option, seems like Shooters World powders are showing up more & more. Now I bought an 8LB jug of their Precision powder, which is supposed to be similar to Varget, the bad news is it actually costs more than Varget. I have loaded both 88ELDs and Nosler 77 bullets but have not been to the range since I loaded them for testing. I have a buddy that bought a 8LB just of their Tactical Powder for his AR/M1a rifles, again he has not been out with it yet either. Just throwing this out there,maybe they can work for ya till the powders you really want are available again. As soon as I get a respectable day (above 30 degrees and no wind) I'll be out and will relay my info.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...rifle-d073-01/
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...ecision-rifle/
https://shootersworldpowder.com/bulk-propellant/#burn

[BobinNC]

Accurate 2460 load data can be found below for both .223 Rem. and 5.56 NATO

https://ramshot.com/wp-content/uploa...ide8.0_WEB.pdf

Snapshot of Data for AA2460 77 grain SMK (or 77 Nosler CC) in a .223 case, 24" barrel:

Start 20.4 grains 2532 FPS
Max 22.6 grains 2743 FPS

5.56 Data 77 grain SMK (or 77 Nosler CC) in a 5.56 case, 24" barrel:

Start 21.6 grains 2652 FPS
Max 24.0 grains 2878 FPS

[opngrnd]

Maybe an option, seems like Shooters World powders are showing up more & more. Now I bought an 8LB jug of their Precision powder, which is supposed to be similar to Varget, the bad news is it actually costs more than Varget. I have loaded both 88ELDs and Nosler 77 bullets but have not been to the range since I loaded them for testing. I have a buddy that bought a 8LB just of their Tactical Powder for his AR/M1a rifles, again he has not been out with it yet either. Just throwing this out there,maybe they can work for ya till the powders you really want are available again. As soon as I get a respectable day (above 30 degrees and no wind) I'll be out and will relay my info.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...rifle-d073-01/
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...ecision-rifle/
https://shootersworldpowder.com/bulk-propellant/#burn

I bought a pound of Shooters World Precision Rifle, but I'm stuck waiting on range time for a month or so.

[Wormydog1724]

Just leaving the range after trying CFE223 and AA2460.

CFE 223 gave best groups overall but holy moly they were slow. AA2460 (2230-C) groups were acceptable and speed was really quick. Speed isn’t everything but the cfe223 was just entirely too slow. I might try to pack some more in and give it a try but with it’s temp sensitivity I don’t want to risk it necessarily.

5 shot groups, SD’s were pretty big with all of the powders

Nosler 77gr CC, KAC LPR MOD2 18” barrel, NF NX8 2.5-20x50 Tremor 3, prone, atlas bipod, rear bag, RRA two stage trigger (need to swap out). COAL 2.280~, mixed brass, and CCI41 or CCI450 primers.

CFE223
23.5gr 2465fps .70moa
24.0gr 2483fps 1.28moa (one flyer opened it up, .83moa 4-shots)
24.5gr 2591fps .63moa

AA2460 (2230-C)
23.0gr 2662fps 1.14moa
23.5gr 2732fps 1.23moa
24.0gr 2809fps 1.67moa (one flyer opened it up)

H322
21.6gr 2741fps 1.09moa (load I use mostly, usually under moa but not today!)


I’m going to load some more AA2460 (2230-c) at 23.7gr, 24.0gr, and 24.3gr.