Red Dot choices

[RHINOWSO]

I will say I'm firmly of the camp of high end or really cheap.

Meaning for me, it's Aimpoint / Eotech / Trijicon RMR for expensive duty RDS or cheap SIG Romeo 5s for PCC / beater $95-120.

The $200-350 ones from SIG / Holosun / etc just don't interest me - so I either save up for an Aimpoint or just buy a cheap SIG R5. Part of that reason is there is just no longevity on the SIG / Holosuns - sure, they work great for a couple years, but will they all start $hitting the bed in 5-10 years?

[RHINOWSO]

I actually did already buy one, ha! It's for my "quarantine build" rifle I'm putting together though. Just for fun. Bought it off a member here for $550 but yes the MSRP price on those is a little out of control. I think they toned down the "whiteness" on the branding as mine looks a little more subdued. Anyway, haven't shot with it yet but build quality seems very nice, dot is crisp, and yes I do like the (gasp!) motion activation.

Your picture animation things crack me up by the way haha!

I hope it works out for you - if they had come out in the $500 price range with a subdued model from the beginning, I think they would have had far more success. I recall a Leupold Rep saying "But its the BEST RDS out there" for $800+. When you get to the point of being the price of 2xPros, that RDS better also give sexual favors. I know they were gunning for military contracts in the wake of the Eotech scandal, but they priced themselves WAAAAY the Foook out of the market.

[Core781]

I hope it works out for you - if they had come out in the $500 price range with a subdued model from the beginning, I think they would have had far more success. I recall a Leupold Rep saying "But its the BEST RDS out there" for $800+. When you get to the point of being the price of 2xPros, that RDS better also give sexual favors. I know they were gunning for military contracts in the wake of the Eotech scandal, but they priced themselves WAAAAY the Foook out of the market.

Leupold's LCO is around $700, less with street price discounts and has the gold ring transferable guarantee. At 9oz it's not as heavy as the Vortex UH1 11oz. but still can't beat Eotech 8oz. I trust Eotech to repair but I would trust Leupold to make it right even after they no longer support the optic. I prefer the features on the Vortex UH1 but it's too big and heavy for my taste: but I trust Vortex warranty unquestionably. Aimpoint no way.

The Aimpoint Pros are great but they are not military grade by any means. They lack forged strength and waterproof abilities of their more expensive counterparts.

Get what gets the job done but shaming products without citing facts and hypothetical costs is silly. I agree with the aforementioned "feature" comments, and evolution in optics is fine as long as it does not fail when it gets put to real world use. Leupolds RDS looks like a lot of bang for the buck with a warranty you will not get from Aimpoint. Maybe they should make a blacked out tactical version for those who can't get past the gold ring and associating it with dad's hunting scope?

[kyjd75]

Leupold's LCO is around $700, less with street price discounts and has the gold ring transferable guarantee. At 9oz it's not as heavy as the Vortex UH1 11oz. but still can't beat Eotech 8oz. I trust Eotech to repair but I would trust Leupold to make it right even after they no longer support the optic. I prefer the features on the Vortex UH1 but it's too big and heavy for my taste: but I trust Vortex warranty unquestionably. Aimpoint no way.

The Aimpoint Pros are great but they are not military grade by any means. They lack forged strength and waterproof abilities of their more expensive counterparts.

Get what gets the job done but shaming products without citing facts and hypothetical costs is silly. I agree with the aforementioned "feature" comments, and evolution in optics is fine as long as it does not fail when it gets put to real world use. Leupolds RDS looks like a lot of bang for the buck with a warranty you will not get from Aimpoint. Maybe they should make a blacked out tactical version for those who can't get past the gold ring and associating it with dad's hunting scope?

Leupold just did. No gold ring. 34mm wide tube. I've been thinking about getting one.

[AndyLate]

Yeah I never understood all the disdain for the motion sensor tech. I don't see why it is a bad thing, especially if you have the option to disable it. To be quite honest, I'm thinking of replacing my bedside rifle's optic, which currently wears an Eotech, to a Leupold LCO just for that motion tech.

I really like the idea of the two Nikon optics I have for my dedicated rimfire upper - they turn off after 2 hours, then you manually turn them back on. For a recreational gun, that is a real battery saver. The motion sensor feature always gives me visions of standing in my bedroom at 0dark30 frantically shaking the gun to turn the optic on (I know that's not how they work).

Andy

[RHINOWSO]

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Leupold just did. No gold ring. 34mm wide tube. I've been thinking about getting one.

Hopefully the lenses are glued in correctly on yours. Rear one falls out after the second shot at 11:08....

[RHINOWSO]

The Aimpoint Pros are great but they are not military grade by any means. They lack forged strength and waterproof abilities of their more expensive counterparts.

Interesting, links / data to back it up? Also, what is "military grade"..? I mean since I'm 'product shaming'... (you must have taken a WOKE class or be dating an alphabet person...). It's rated to 45m per Aimpoints website and I don't see many failures noted online. Absolutely none with mine. Vortex has a great warranty (and they need it in my experience).

Yes LCOs have come down in price but that was the butchers bill when they unveiled them and it was pretty much <crickets, crickets, crickets> on reviews and real live experiences posted for a long, long time. They have come down a bit, but it's been out for 3-4 years now, maybe more?

Let us know how the Leupold RDS works out, not sure what the audience is with that. 1000 hr battery life on 4 out of 8? Mmmmkay, I think I'd recommend Aimpoint Pro or ACO before that thing.

But hey, do you man - or whatever your preferred pronoun is...

[2risky]

Yeah I never understood all the disdain for the motion sensor tech. I don't see why it is a bad thing, especially if you have the option to disable it. To be quite honest, I'm thinking of replacing my bedside rifle's optic, which currently wears an Eotech, to a Leupold LCO just for that motion tech.

Me neither, although in the past I've never used that feature. I do know what happens when I forget to turnoff my Accupower LPVO! But for the lockdown I decided to give that feature a try and for the last 8 weeks I've left it on (Romeo4 M&H) to give it a try. So far it's worked fine. On and bright for every check so far with the battery still working. I'll see how long it last.

[Jonnyt16]

Hopefully the lenses are glued in correctly on yours. Rear one falls out after the second shot at 11:08....

video=youtube_share;_DkALBk7bd8]https://youtu.be/_DkALBk7bd8?t=667[/video]

Lol, wow. That's not good. The LCO however claims 5 years of battery life. Hopefully the damn lenses stay on!

The motion sensor feature always gives me visions of standing in my bedroom at 0dark30 frantically shaking the gun to turn the optic on (I know that's not how they work).

Andy

I actually tested the LCO...I sat it on top my gun safe (big heavy one) and waited for it to turn off. Then I tapped on the side of the safe with two fingers and the optic turned on. The motion activation is extremely sensitive.

[3ACR_Scout]

Very helpful post, thanks for this ^

Great post.

A belated thanks for the feedback - I'm glad you found something useful in my post. I continue to think a lot about our economic relationship with China as the world situation evolves, but I'll hold off on commenting on that any further.

I wanted to provide a few thoughts on the Holosun HS403R, now that I have it in hand. I'm pretty impressed with the quality of the optic. The glass is very clear and the dot is sharp and similar in appearance and brightness to my Aimpoint Micros. I like the activation / brightness adjustment dial due to its similarity to the way Aimpoints operate. It turns smoothly with audible and tactile clicks. It's much easier to turn than my T-2, while still being stiff enough to prevent inadvertently changing the setting if it gets bumped somehow. The zero adjustments are smooth and easy to turn, and I like the built-in tool on the caps. One odd thing though - the dot came from the factory adjust pretty far to the right, and I had to turn it about 50 clicks to bring it back into alignment with my irons, which were set at mechanical zero in terms of windage since the rear back-up site is also new. Really minor complaint: I don't care for the way Holosun applies a dark grey matte finish to the sight body but a glossy black coating on the dial and caps.

On a separate note, I was hoping to be able to put an Aimpoint T-1 IO cover on the 403R (which I understand fits on the 503G and some others), but the 403R is slightly longer, and the protective bumps for the adjustment turrets (?) prevent the IO cover from fitting. I'll have to see if there are any flip caps that fit the Holosun, because I really don't like bikini cap thing.

The one thing I don't really care for on this sight is the mount. I use Larue LT660 QD mounts for my Aimpoints to get the lower 1/3 co-witness and also allow me to remove them occasionally to test on other rifles or to fit them in a smaller carrying case. I like that they can maintain their zero while still having that QD flexibility. I found a great deal from a member of another forum on a very lightly used LT751 QD mount (absolute co-witness with Aimpoint). It arrived yesterday, and I installed it and tested it out. Because the 403R body is a bit taller than an Aimpoint, it sits higher when installed on the same mount. For comparison, I measured the centerline of the LT660 / T-2 combo at approximately 1.69" (I believe the official T-1 height is 1.64"), while the LT751 / HS403R came out to about 1.59". A slight difference, but both heights feel comfortable to me so far. I'm looking forward to trying it out when I can get back out to the range. I'll definitely make use of the QD mount to try the Holosun on different platforms.

One kind of funny comment on quality control: the HS403R came with the usual L-shaped tool for mounting, which uses the star-shaped Torx wrench interface. The short end of the tool was misshapen so that it won't engage with the bolt on the Holosun mount. I could only use the long end (with less leverage) to tighten it, but of course I have a driver on hand with multiple bits, including various Torx sizes. I guess... you get what you pay for. For about $220 total including the Larue mount, I think I'll be pretty happy with this sight as a truck / training / loaner gun optic.