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Thread: Lightweight level 4 plate recommendation?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue556 View Post
    Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AT Armor STOP-BZ (IP) Special Threat plates are AT Armor's version of the Velocity Systems Special Threat plates. It may be a more attainable option for someone looking. I talked to AT Armor the other day and was told 8-12 weeks for most of their plates.
    Thanks for the info...probably gonna make an order for a few things..

  2. #32
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    Never had an issue with Botach but I'm not one to sit impatiently waiting on my purchase. Actually I probably forget I made the purchase 3 minutes after hitting the submit button. So all arrivals are a bit of a surprise!

    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  3. #33
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    I have Hesco 4800s on order. The Velocity Systems Special Threat API-BZ plates are probably a better choice all around given the threat profile, weight, and thinness...but I'd like know why they're rated for calibers that the Tencate plate their based on isn't rated for.

    Quote Originally Posted by t1tan View Post
    I've seen mention elsewhere the AT plates are Tencates, don't remember the models. AT told me the same 8-12 weeks but also mentioned the higher end stuff usually comes back sooner and said my U210s would probably ship sooner.
    Cratus 6450: https://www.tencateadvancedarmor.com...tus-CR-6450-SA
    Last edited by OrbitalE; 08-02-20 at 17:22.

  4. #34
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    Me and some buddies were in Vegas and bought a large batch (9+) of the Botach Level IV Battle Steel plates. We all chipped in and split the cost of a plate to test destructively. Our reasoning was our realistic worse case scenario was M855A1 out of a long barrel (18", longest we had) at point blank range. If it stopped that, then it was good enough to wear. It stopped the M855A1 no issues. We then proceeded to shoot it with a collection of modern and old rifles and hand guns. The only pass through we had was another M855A1 directly on top of the first shot and another high power rifle round directly on top of a separate M855A1 hit. M855A1 spaced out a decent amount were stopped. Everything else was stopped. The plates were a ceramic strike face with a UDPE backer. One of our guys tried to use 80+ .22lr rounds to see if he could burrow through the UDPE backer (he couldn't).

    It left everyone there confident in the plates we bought (and the people who had abstained wishing we hadn't). Here is an album from the testing. Resting was conducted March of 2020.

    http://imgur.com/a/EkT3Clo
    Last edited by Nessy; 10-02-20 at 08:05.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessy View Post
    Me and some buddies were in Vegas and bought a large batch (9+) of the Botach Level IV Battle Steel plates. We all chipped in and split the cost of a plate to test destructively. Our reasoning was our realistic worse case scenario was M855A1 out of a long barrel (18", longest we had) at point blank range. If it stopped that, then it was good enough to wear. It stopped the M855A1 no issues. We then proceeded to shoot it with a collection of modern and old rifles and hand guns. The only pass through we had was another M855A1 directly on top of the first shot and another high power rifle round directly on top of a separate M855A1 hit. M855A1 spaced out a decent amount were stopped. Everything else was stopped. The plates were a ceramic strike face with a UDPE backer. One of our guys tried to use 80+ .22lr rounds to see if he could burrow through the UDPE backer (he couldn't).

    It left everyone there confident in the plates we bought (and the people who had onstained wishing we hadn't). Here is an album from the testing. Resting was conducted March of 2020.

    http://imgur.com/a/EkT3Clo
    Good on you all to do the test! I feel even better about mine now. Hopefully I never need them, but sure to have that extra security in the go bag.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessy View Post
    Me and some buddies were in Vegas and bought a large batch (9+) of the Botach Level IV Battle Steel plates. We all chipped in and split the cost of a plate to test destructively. Our reasoning was our realistic worse case scenario was M855A1 out of a long barrel (18", longest we had) at point blank range. If it stopped that, then it was good enough to wear. It stopped the M855A1 no issues. We then proceeded to shoot it with a collection of modern and old rifles and hand guns. The only pass through we had was another M855A1 directly on top of the first shot and another high power rifle round directly on top of a separate M855A1 hit. M855A1 spaced out a decent amount were stopped. Everything else was stopped. The plates were a ceramic strike face with a UDPE backer. One of our guys tried to use 80+ .22lr rounds to see if he could burrow through the UDPE backer (he couldn't).

    It left everyone there confident in the plates we bought (and the people who had abstained wishing we hadn't). Here is an album from the testing. Resting was conducted March of 2020.

    http://imgur.com/a/EkT3Clo
    Thank you for doing this, I feel like it should be tacked somewhere.

  7. #37
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    Hesco 4800 LV are the best level IV plates on the market, if you think non-ceramic is better than ceramic (there is a good durability argument for that). Thin, light, and you can beat it up a lot more without worrying about it fracturing like ceramic plates. Has some ceramic component, but is overall considered a Spectra composite plate. Expensive, but that's the plate CBP uses.

    https://www.hesco.com/products/armor/800-series/

    4800LV-SA-MC-L

    10.25 x 13.25 inches / 260 x 337 mm

    0.67 inches / 17 mm

    5.6 lb / 2.6 kg

    -----------------------------------------

    Threat Performance Matrix

    800 SERIES 4800LV-SA-MC-XL 4800LV-SA-MC-L 4800LV-SA-MC-M 4800LV-SA-MC-S 4800LV-SA-MC-XS

    Lead Core
    5.56 x 45 mm – MI93
    Max Velocity 3150 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 39 mm - M67
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 51 mm – M80 *
    Max Velocity 2800 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3

    MILD STEEL
    CORE
    5.56 x 45 mm - M855/SS109
    Max Velocity 3150 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 39 mm – M43
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 54R – LPS
    Max Velocity 2850 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3

    ENHANCED
    PERFORMANCE
    5.56 x 45 mm - M855A1
    Max Velocity 3050 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 51mm – M80A1
    Max Velocity 3050 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1

    ARMOR PIERCING CORE
    7.62 x 39 mm - API
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 54R B-32 - API
    Max Velocity 2850 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1
    7.62 x 51 mm – M61
    Max Velocity 2830 ft/s (863 m/s) 1 1 1 1 1
    7.62 x 63 mm – AP M2 **
    Max Velocity 2900 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1

    General Information
    Advanced ceramic/Spectra® design. Water repellant polyurethane coated CORDURA® fabric finish.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Hesco 4800 LV are the best level IV plates on the market, if you think non-ceramic is better than ceramic (there is a good durability argument for that). Thin, light, and you can beat it up a lot more without worrying about it fracturing like ceramic plates. Has some ceramic component, but is overall considered a Spectra composite plate. Expensive, but that's the plate CBP uses.

    https://www.hesco.com/products/armor/800-series/

    4800LV-SA-MC-L

    10.25 x 13.25 inches / 260 x 337 mm

    0.67 inches / 17 mm

    5.6 lb / 2.6 kg

    -----------------------------------------

    Threat Performance Matrix

    800 SERIES 4800LV-SA-MC-XL 4800LV-SA-MC-L 4800LV-SA-MC-M 4800LV-SA-MC-S 4800LV-SA-MC-XS

    Lead Core
    5.56 x 45 mm – MI93
    Max Velocity 3150 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 39 mm - M67
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 51 mm – M80 *
    Max Velocity 2800 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3

    MILD STEEL
    CORE
    5.56 x 45 mm - M855/SS109
    Max Velocity 3150 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 39 mm – M43
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 54R – LPS
    Max Velocity 2850 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3

    ENHANCED
    PERFORMANCE
    5.56 x 45 mm - M855A1
    Max Velocity 3050 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 51mm – M80A1
    Max Velocity 3050 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1

    ARMOR PIERCING CORE
    7.62 x 39 mm - API
    Max Velocity 2390 ft/s 3 3 3 3 3
    7.62 x 54R B-32 - API
    Max Velocity 2850 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1
    7.62 x 51 mm – M61
    Max Velocity 2830 ft/s (863 m/s) 1 1 1 1 1
    7.62 x 63 mm – AP M2 **
    Max Velocity 2900 ft/s 1 1 1 1 1

    General Information
    Advanced ceramic/Spectra® design. Water repellant polyurethane coated CORDURA® fabric finish.
    Those look good, but important to mention:
    "For reduced thickness, the BI 4800LV does not have front face or back face foam layers and therefore does not meet the drop test or backface signature deformation requirements of NIJ Standard–0101.06."

    Also it says ceramic/spectra so it looks like a composite plate (two different types of stopping materials). Probably great for a low vis carrier, too bad they're $$$$.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessy View Post
    Those look good, but important to mention:
    "For reduced thickness, the BI 4800LV does not have front face or back face foam layers and therefore does not meet the drop test or backface signature deformation requirements of NIJ Standard–0101.06."

    Also it says ceramic/spectra so it looks like a composite plate (two different types of stopping materials). Probably great for a low vis carrier, too bad they're $$$$.
    They still stop the rounds without penetration. Just missing the backface foam increases blunt trauma to the wearer on impact, but imo it's not worth it bumping the thickness from 0.67" in the 4800LV to 1.04" in the regular 4800 just to get the foam. That extra thickness creates far greater interference with weapon manipulation. CBP gave up the foam to get the thinner 4800 LV. They run IIIa panels behind the plate anyway so extra / redundant foam would be basically nothing but downside.

    If you're running an external carrier, then you're going to have IIIa panels anyway, and those are much, much better than the foam backing. You wouldn't want the 4800 + its foam + your IIIa panel. 4800LV + IIIa panel is level IV and 0.37" thinner.

    If you're running a concealed carrier, then you still wouldn't want the foam, as concealing a 1.04" 4800 plate under a large shirt / jacket is basically impossible. And the foam doesn't add very much protection to the standalone plate.

    So open carrier w/ IIIa panel or concealed carrier w/o panel, I can't imagine when you'd ever want the foam. You'd have to be running your concealed carrier externally (no IIIa panel) for foam to even have the potential to make sense, and even then it's still probably way better to be thinner than so much thicker just to have foam.
    Last edited by Naphtali; 10-02-20 at 22:08.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    They still stop the rounds without penetration. Just missing the backface foam increases blunt trauma to the wearer on impact, but imo it's not worth it bumping the thickness from 0.67" in the 4800LV to 1.04" in the regular 4800 just to get the foam. That extra thickness creates far greater interference with weapon manipulation. CBP gave up the foam to get the thinner 4800 LV. They run IIIa panels behind the plate anyway so extra / redundant foam would be basically nothing but downside.

    If you're running an external carrier, then you're going to have IIIa panels anyway, and those are much, much better than the foam backing. You wouldn't want the 4800 + its foam + your IIIa panel. 4800LV + IIIa panel is level IV and 0.37" thinner.
    Except not everyone runs soft armor under their plates. That's the whole point of standalone plates, after all. The 4800LV are bad ass if you're throwing them on over soft armor or if you have backers, but if you don't, then you're stuck with getting 4800s to meet performance spec, which I don't see any advantage over other high quality Level IVs in terms of thickness, like the TenCate Cratus 4400 or Venture FM4 (note that most Level IV ICWs are about the same thickness as the 4800LVs, though I believe that the 4800LVs are the lightest, same with the 4800). Realistically, the 4800LVs are probably going to meet Level III, and the levels are way overblown, anyway (I would agree that the 4800L would serve most folks better than the 4800s if the AP is the only thing that's failing without backers), but I would find it very disingenuous to call these Level IV, let alone the best of the bunch. There is also something to be said about the durability argument, when these are failing the drop tests.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 10-02-20 at 23:54.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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