BCM - Manufacturer or Assembler

[n8vmind]

Yaah, well is BCM now guaranteeing their lowers will accept Gen 3 PMAG's? That whole debacle with them playing the mil-spec card kind of put me off them.

Gen 2 and 3 pmags work flawlessly on my BCM lower.

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[creedal]

The first question should be, "do they know what they're doing?"

The distinction between manufacturer and assembler is just insulting.

I already knew they knew what they were doing. My asking what parts they make was my fifth question. First, was "does BCM know what they're doing" Second was, "do I like this model?" Third was, "what else is comparable?" Fourth was, "can I do better for $1,349?"

Fifth was, 'Now that I already paid money for it, I wonder how it came together?"
Hardly insulting.

And they gave a fair and timely answer.

[MistWolf]

...I think assembly & exit QC is more important than the parts quality...

All my years of experience building & maintaining aircraft refutes this. If given subpar parts, it doesn't matter how good quality control of the technician assembling or reassembling an aircraft is. The aircraft will have subpar parts. If the parts impact safety of flight, the aircraft unairworthy. For example, if a new magneto (which generates and distributes electricity to the spark plugs) isn't assembled correctly, it doesn't matter how skilled and dedicated the technician installing it is. The engine won't run correctly and the aircraft is unairworthy.

You cannot choose between quality parts and quality assembly processes. You have to have both. A skilled and dedicated assembler can't make an AR function correctly if given an out of spec barrel, weak extractor spring, carbine weight buffer or bolt that's not properly heat treated & stress relieved.

In reality, the least important factor in quality control is quality assurance (what you call "exit quality control") because by the time the product is finished and submitted for final inspection, all opportunities for quality control has passed. All that can be done is to assure all quality control processes have been followed during manufacture.

[JC5188]

Here is something to think about. The internet has moved things out of the scope of generic information, and into the realm of highly detailed info. That information may seem like a legitimate source of intel, but the problem is that it is not. At least not in the context we are talking about here.

You commented that over the past few years you have seen threads commenting about BCM being an assembler. Over the years, that is not a totally ignorant comment to have been made. It is my understanding that BCM started by specing out the components needed for their AR15 platform, and using the vendors which would be able to produce the items to the specs which they listed.

HOWEVER, at a certain point, BCM began to take the manufacturing from outside sources, and with the CNC machines BCM purchased, took those operations in house. Where we get into question, and why many MFGs don't want to lock things down, is if they are able to keep supply lines open with other MFGs. For example, lets say for sake of argument that BCM produced all its own BCGs, and is able to supply a portion of the aftermarket crowd. If all of a sudden, there is a supply issue with the appropriate steels, a virus which cripples transportation, or something similar, BCM may not be able to manufacture everything needed, and may trade or purchase items from another vendor who is able to meet their criteria. If that happens, its possible that a customer gets a Colt bolt instead of a BCM bolt. This would make BCM liable for not carrying through with the information they supply their customers (even though it changed nothing).

I have a friend who makes barrels, or at times has barrels made to his specs. Do I care which barrel I get from him? No, because the end result is the same. However, if he stated he made all his own barrels in house, he would be lying. If he said he only used (fill in the blank), he would again be lying. So he protects his information and produced high quality barrels without worry.

BCM DOES manufacturer a large portion of their items in house, but it certainly is not everything, nor would it make sense if they did.

A little late to this thread, but just wanted to confirm, generally, what Stick said here.

I work for a large manufacturer (not ARs or firearms). Sometimes, for various reasons, we will sub out component items or even final assemblies that we absolutely have the capability and available capacity to make.

Nothing out of the ordinary in manufacturing.

[veeklog]

I have purchased many items from BCM, to include barrels, uppers, complete uppers, bcg’s, charging handles, etc; never was able to buy a lower from them, though. Never had any issues with any of their products and will continue to buy from them without hesitation. Are they manufacturers or assemblers? Who cares, as long as they stand by their products and and churn out a good product

[creedal]

Gen 2 and 3 pmags work flawlessly on my BCM lower.

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PMags work perfectly in my BCM Recce. Drop free. Function. Good to go.

This gun is fabulous. And I think a great value for all I want, that I can 100% trust, and that I cannot improve upon for the general purposes I have in mind.

[themonk]

Yaah, well is BCM now guaranteeing their lowers will accept Gen 3 PMAG's? That whole debacle with them playing the mil-spec card kind of put me off them.

No they are not but it does appear that they have started to replace lowers that don’t. So that’s good news. They are still blaming magpul.

Just saw one the other day in a Facebook group I’m in that was no go with 5+ gen 3 pmags. BCM sent the owner an RMA, I’m interested if they replace it. Guy just bought the rifle. Bummer thing to happen in the middle of a pandemic.

[rushca01]

No they are not but it does appear that they have started to replace lowers that don’t. So that’s good news. They are still blaming magpul.

Just saw one the other day in a Facebook group I’m in that was no go with 5+ gen 3 pmags. BCM sent the owner an RMA, I’m interested if they replace it. Guy just bought the rifle. Bummer thing to happen in the middle of a pandemic.

Especially if they are first time buyer and don't have backup rifles. Most of us here have back ups for backs ups.

[themonk]

Especially if they are first time buyer and don't have backup rifles. Most of us here have back ups for backs ups.

He was a first time buyer and was not going to send back to BCM incase he needed it. Worried about protecting his wife and 3 little kids. He was lucky enough to barrow a lower from a buddy so he could send it back for RMA.

[seb5]

When I started building years ago I felt I could build better rifles than many I could buy. Over the years that changed. The last rifle I bought was a factory Colt CCU from Grant. Even with a $1200.00 starting point by the time I add what I wanted in the way of triggers, sights, slings, optics, weapon lights, charging handles, selectors, etc., etc, I still end up around three grand.

I started by buying lots of BCM and Noveske components, then their complete uppers, and the price never seemed to change a lot. I'm still carrying as my main carbine purposely built BCM 14.5 LW and it's my go to for anything other then long range precision. My SBR's are there but really more of a range toy unless the whole world went upside down.

I considered myself a serious builder and have attended three armorer classes over the years. I've got more in specialty tools than most AR's cost. Now it's more of a hobby for friends and co workers. You can build fine rifles but the cost isn't the reason, it's the satisfaction of getting exactly what you want without drawers full of take off parts. But without the training, experience and proper tools you may get a good rifle but you may not. YMMV.