Chinese Made Optics

[AndyLate]

I see/hear that sentiment a lot. Can someone please explain to me why an optic which is unacceptable for quality or ethical concerns, suddenly becomes acceptable on a rimfire?

I absolutely do not run the same quality of optics on my rimfire guns. Why would I spend $400+ for an AP Pro or MRO on a carbine with greatly reduced range and recoil that will never shoot an animal larger than a rabbit? The same holds true for magnified optics, my 22s are running close-out Nikons rather than Vortex or Trijicon.

Serious competition or precision guns are different, of course.

Andy

[Valhalla]

I see/hear that sentiment a lot. Can someone please explain to me why an optic which is unacceptable for quality or ethical concerns, suddenly becomes acceptable on a rimfire?

This. Specifically, the "ethical" part.

If one is so anti-Chinese (which I will respect), then do as many have said: "will not buy Chinese whenever possible" - there are even airsoft guns NOT made in China if you so wish. What I can't respect, is "selective hatred"... when it's inconvenient suddenly buying Chinese is OK.

I, on the other hand, don't care where it's made as long as the product is invented and controlled by an American brand. To clarify, my purchase decisions are as follow:

1. American company, American made (e.g. LaRue, ADM, Battle Arms, ourselves, etc)
2. Foreign company, American made (e.g. Aimpoint, Toyota Highlander)
3. American company, foreign made (e.g. PA, SIG, Ford Transit Connect)
4. Foreign company, foreign made (e.g. Holosun, Porsche 911)

Basically, when I am shopping and if I know more than one product fits my needs, then the one highest up that list automatically wins. Simple as that. However, I WILL NOT, regardless of where it's made or how well it's made, buy unauthorized knock-offs. That's where I think everyone should draw their line. Stuff like those "Not Arisaka" finger stops on Amazon... or knock off JPCs even if they are from South Korea and not China. Theft of IP is what really hurt our country long-term, and most of those are definitely from China.



VT

[Eurodriver]

I absolutely do not run the same quality of optics on my rimfire guns. Why would I spend $400+ for an AP Pro or MRO on a carbine with greatly reduced range and recoil that will never shoot an animal larger than a rabbit? The same holds true for magnified optics, my 22s are running close-out Nikons rather than Vortex or Trijicon.

Serious competition or precision guns are different, of course.

Andy

I absolutely do run the same quality of optics on a rimfire as I do anything else. .22 pistol has a T1. .22 rifle has a Nightforce. It’s a no brainer.

Why would anyone ever want to have less than the best for something they may need to use as a weapon one day?

Guns aren’t toys. Save the Chinese optics for the airsoft trainers.

[AndyLate]

I absolutely do run the same quality of optics on a rimfire as I do anything else. .22 pistol has a T1. .22 rifle has a Nightforce. It’s a no brainer.

Why would anyone ever want to have less than the best for something they may need to use as a weapon one day?

Guns aren’t toys. Save the Chinese optics for the airsoft trainers.

I honestly don't consider a rimfire as a weapon. My rimfire guns are not toys, but they are used for training and entertainment.

I greatly respect both you and your consistent "quality first, quality always" message.

Andy

[Arik]

I honestly don't consider a rimfire as a weapon. My rimfire guns are not toys, but they are used for training and entertainment.

I greatly respect both you and your consistent "quality first, quality always" message.

Andy

I'm going to go with this. ^

I consider 22lr a step above BB guns. I realize they are NOT toys but my view of 22lr is maybe shoot a mag every decade or so. It's definitely not the firearm I'll be picking for defense, or training, or fun.

I own one Ruger 10/22. Had it forever and shot maybe 30 rounds. Last time I took it out was during the Sandy Hook panic. Shot a few rounds to see if it still worked and wasn't caked with grime. So, something like that, if I were to put a red dot on it, would get whatever Walmart special there is. Otherwise it would be a colossal waste of money

[1168]

I absolutely do not run the same quality of optics on my rimfire guns. Why would I spend $400+ for an AP Pro or MRO on a carbine with greatly reduced range and recoil that will never shoot an animal larger than a rabbit? The same holds true for magnified optics, my 22s are running close-out Nikons rather than Vortex or Trijicon.

Serious competition or precision guns are different, of course.

Andy

If I’m trying to put rabbits and squirrels on the table, a good optic has never impeded me. Especially as dusk approaches. I realize that the cost might be considered a waste for tree rats, but I might also use such a rifle for target shooting, etc. The important stuff is that it be acceptably durable, and maintain zero, and have clear glass. If I’m unwilling to spend that, I can, and have, used iron sights to wax rodents.

If those Nikons you mentioned are of acceptable, mid-grade quality, then you are not who I was talking about.

I'm going to go with this. ^

I consider 22lr a step above BB guns. I realize they are NOT toys but my view of 22lr is maybe shoot a mag every decade or so. It's definitely not the firearm I'll be picking for defense, or training, or fun.

I own one Ruger 10/22. Had it forever and shot maybe 30 rounds. Last time I took it out was during the Sandy Hook panic. Shot a few rounds to see if it still worked and wasn't caked with grime. So, something like that, if I were to put a red dot on it, would get whatever Walmart special there is. Otherwise it would be a colossal waste of money

I would consider any rifle unworthy of a decent sight (iron, or otherwise) to be a colossal waste of money. The point is to be able to hit your desired target at will.

I own a 1911 that I shoot like once a year. It’d be a waste to put an RMR on it. So, it wears iron sights.

I absolutely do run the same quality of optics on a rimfire as I do anything else. .22 pistol has a T1. .22 rifle has a Nightforce. It’s a no brainer.

Why would anyone ever want to have less than the best for something they may need to use as a weapon one day?

Guns aren’t toys. Save the Chinese optics for the airsoft trainers.

I saw your Sig thread. Don’t feel weird; 22x Sigs are great shooters, and are better than Glocks in some ways. My armorer had to pry the M11 out of my hand to give me a G19. They also may be better than Berettas for optics. I’ll have to get back to you on that sometime. At some point I plan on putting an optic on my my 225a1 or 229. Currently safe queens that get shot occasionally because...G19.

[Arik]

If I’m trying to put rabbits and squirrels on the table, a good optic has never impeded me. Especially as dusk approaches. I realize that the cost might be considered a waste for tree rats, but I might also use such a rifle for target shooting, etc. The important stuff is that it be acceptably durable, and maintain zero, and have clear glass. If I’m unwilling to spend that, I can, and have, used iron sights to wax rodents.

If those Nikons you mentioned are of acceptable, mid-grade quality, then you are not who I was talking about.


I would consider any rifle unworthy of a decent sight (iron, or otherwise) to be a colossal waste of money. The point is to be able to hit your desired target at will.

I own a 1911 that I shoot like once a year. It’d be a waste to put an RMR on it. So, it wears iron sights.



I saw your Sig thread. Don’t feel weird; 22x Sigs are great shooters, and are better than Glocks in some ways. My armorer had to pry the M11 out of my hand to give me a G19. They also may be better than Berettas for optics. I’ll have to get back to you on that sometime. At some point I plan on putting an optic on my my 225a1 or 229. Currently safe queens that get shot occasionally because...G19.

Yes. But there's a but.....

I was always told 22lr....you should have a 22lr....you should practice with a 22lr. I got a 22lr. Meh!

After I got a Ruger 10/22 I realized I can practice with what I actually shoot. I still have it because it's not actually worth anything

The Ruger has iron sights

[Arik]

If I’m trying to put rabbits and squirrels on the table, a good optic has never impeded me. Especially as dusk approaches. I realize that the cost might be considered a waste for tree rats, but I might also use such a rifle for target shooting, etc. The important stuff is that it be acceptably durable, and maintain zero, and have clear glass. If I’m unwilling to spend that, I can, and have, used iron sights to wax rodents.

If those Nikons you mentioned are of acceptable, mid-grade quality, then you are not who I was talking about.


I would consider any rifle unworthy of a decent sight (iron, or otherwise) to be a colossal waste of money. The point is to be able to hit your desired target at will.

I own a 1911 that I shoot like once a year. It’d be a waste to put an RMR on it. So, it wears iron sights.



I saw your Sig thread. Don’t feel weird; 22x Sigs are great shooters, and are better than Glocks in some ways. My armorer had to pry the M11 out of my hand to give me a G19. They also may be better than Berettas for optics. I’ll have to get back to you on that sometime. At some point I plan on putting an optic on my my 225a1 or 229. Currently safe queens that get shot occasionally because...G19.

Same. Have a TRP that I got as a one 1911 to have.

I can hit my target with the 10/22 however, I'm not overly concerned if I don't or at what distance. I can't explain the IDGAF of 22lr other than compare it to a BB gun. In other words, if you had a BB gun. If you had a Daisy red rider would you ultimately care what you can hit with it and how far out?

[MountainRaven]

I seem to recall one of the P&S Modcasts where Chuck Pressberg relayed the story of a peace officer living way back when (sometime between the 30s and the 80s, IDK), in the sticks who was confronted by the armed family of a man he'd arrested one too many times. He had his kid take his 22 rifle and go to the second story of the building to provide overwatch while he went out the front door with his service revolver on his hip to confront the angry half-dozen or so armed people.

Long story short, dude died. Went down shooting. But his family - wife and kids - survived. And the people who had come to his house to cause him and his harm did not, because they were focused on the guy with the revolver and were oblivious to the kid in the second story window whacking them with his gopher getter.

That doesn't mean I'd suggest you hand your 10 year old a 22 and ask them to provide overwatch for you when confronting people obviously seeking to do you harm on your property. But if the second most skilled person in your household is your 10 year old kid and all they're comfortable with/all they've ever used is a 22... well, the 22 LR rifle is a weapon. And it's a weapon you might have to employ in the defense of your family. And suddenly the sighting system is very damned important.

Just some food for thought.

[mig1nc]

I'll admit, I didn't read this whole thread, but from what I'm hearing from supply chain people, rising wage trends in China have already made it no longer the cheapest place to assemble things.

A lot of stuff is going to Mexico as it's cheaper to make there, less transportation costs/delays, plus you have new trade agreements. For one example.

I suspect we'll see that trend accelerate.


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