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Thread: 380 ACP

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arik View Post
    When having to dress up I carry a LCP. It's the only gun closest to 9mm that I can drop into dress pants pocket without being obvious. I carry FMJ
    I use mine only when doing athletic stuff, and P365 is too big and heavy. Federal 95 grain FMJ.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerplode View Post
    For 380 FMJ, I prefer the WWB stuff with the flat nose...Seems like it would disrupt more tissue than a round nose.

    Maybe have a look at the new Federal Hydra Shok Deep. It's supposed to be able to meet 12" min in bare gel and through heavy clothing.
    Good luck finding any of it.
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  3. #23
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    I dont have a 380 but from what Ive seen at shootings Id carry a FMJ. Obviously I havent seen all the hollow points used and they still kill people. But there have been more than one occasion where a 380 hollow point expanded well but had severely limited penetration. I remember one guy got shot in a bar fight from across the table distance. the 380 hit him in the lower abdomen, right in the love handle. The bullet expanded to probably .5 or .6 inches but didnt even penetrate through the love handle. Maybe 6 inches of penetration through mostly fat. Not a big guy either, 6 foot and 180-190 pounds. Just had a little bit of a beer belly. Doctors pulled it out and packed the wound with medical gauze. Dude walked out of the ER a few hours after being shot.

    On the other hand Ive seen 380 ball ammo give more than adequate penetration.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I dont have a 380 but from what Ive seen at shootings Id carry a FMJ. Obviously I havent seen all the hollow points used and they still kill people. But there have been more than one occasion where a 380 hollow point expanded well but had severely limited penetration. I remember one guy got shot in a bar fight from across the table distance. the 380 hit him in the lower abdomen, right in the love handle. The bullet expanded to probably .5 or .6 inches but didnt even penetrate through the love handle. Maybe 6 inches of penetration through mostly fat. Not a big guy either, 6 foot and 180-190 pounds. Just had a little bit of a beer belly. Doctors pulled it out and packed the wound with medical gauze. Dude walked out of the ER a few hours after being shot.

    On the other hand Ive seen 380 ball ammo give more than adequate penetration.
    Yeah, it depends heavily on the specific JHP in question. If I didn't have the luxury of picking specific loads, I would opt for FMJ. That said, I tend to opt for heavy penetration in my self-defense ammo and I've seen enough to be satisfied with most .380 ACP loads using the Hornady XTP. It consistently penetrates 12-14" in ballistics gel (both bare and w/ heavy clothing). The trade-off here is that expansion is modest, usually in the realm of .39" to .45".

    That's enough to comfort me given that the 12" standard is already a worst-case scenario designed for less-than-optimal impact angles and the like, not to mention I don't anticipate shooting through intermediate barriers with my Bodyguard.

    That said, I can certainly see why many people opt for FMJs -- no guesswork involved there. They (or some other solid round) would be my second choice, easily.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I dont have a 380 but from what Ive seen at shootings Id carry a FMJ. Obviously I havent seen all the hollow points used and they still kill people. But there have been more than one occasion where a 380 hollow point expanded well but had severely limited penetration. I remember one guy got shot in a bar fight from across the table distance. the 380 hit him in the lower abdomen, right in the love handle. The bullet expanded to probably .5 or .6 inches but didnt even penetrate through the love handle. Maybe 6 inches of penetration through mostly fat. Not a big guy either, 6 foot and 180-190 pounds. Just had a little bit of a beer belly. Doctors pulled it out and packed the wound with medical gauze. Dude walked out of the ER a few hours after being shot.

    On the other hand Ive seen 380 ball ammo give more than adequate penetration.
    I have not seen third party testing results of newest .380 JHPs, but we know when tested under controlled conditions by qualified people, not a one was consistent and reliable in depth and or expansion to be recommended for SD. Until I see tests by third party qualified source, I will assume that's the case for more recent designs until otherwise shown

    What did occur to me was, does anyone make a semi wad cutter in .380? That might be the best balance between depth and damage done and constancy issues if reliable in a pistol too. Would be interesting to how a semiwadcutter peforfmed in .380
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I have not seen third party testing results of newest .380 JHPs, but we know when tested under controlled conditions by qualified people, not a one was consistent and reliable in depth and or expansion to be recommended for SD. Until I see tests by third party qualified source, I will assume that's the case for more recent designs until otherwise shown

    What did occur to me was, does anyone make a semi wad cutter in .380? That might be the best balance between depth and damage done and constancy issues if reliable in a pistol too. Would be interesting to how a semiwadcutter peforfmed in .380
    Lucky Gunner did a fairly large battery of tests on a variety of .380 ACP loads -- 10 shots each (5 through denim, 5 into bare gel) -- out of a Glock 42. They seem fairly squared away to me as a layman, with the main condemnation of their ballistics labs being that they use clear gelatin.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...-tests/#380ACP

    There's also the Ammo Quest series of videos that Shooting The Bull did years ago: http://shootingthebull.net/blog/fina...cp-ammo-quest/

    STB remarked frequently in his videos on his attempts to get his tests as stringent as possible in regards to adhering to IWBA/FBI protocols. Doc Roberts is aware of the Ammo Quest series and despite his frequent dismissal of "backyard ballistic testing", actually seems to endorse STB's findings. From Doc:

    "The author of the website 'Shooting the Bull' has gone through the trouble of testing a ton of .380 ammo since the ultra-compact .380 pistols are very popular and published his results in late 2013. If you choose to carry one of these, you may as well try to carry the best there is. The data collected is nicely documented and there are indeed some very decent choices available.

    As you can see, his results appear to be in line with what I've previously observed in regards to those bullets that expand slightly being the best performers. The XTP is well known for limited expansion (which is a serious handicap in most calibers) and that's what helped it here. The HydraShok is also not a recommended bullet design in other calibers, but does well in .380."


    I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, just providing these on the chance you haven't seen them yet.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safton View Post
    Lucky Gunner did a fairly large battery of tests on a variety of .380 ACP loads -- 10 shots each (5 through denim, 5 into bare gel) -- out of a Glock 42. They seem fairly squared away to me as a layman, with the main condemnation of their ballistics labs being that they use clear gelatin.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...-tests/#380ACP

    There's also the Ammo Quest series of videos that Shooting The Bull did years ago: http://shootingthebull.net/blog/fina...cp-ammo-quest/

    STB remarked frequently in his videos on his attempts to get his tests as stringent as possible in regards to adhering to IWBA/FBI protocols. Doc Roberts is aware of the Ammo Quest series and despite his frequent dismissal of "backyard ballistic testing", actually seems to endorse STB's findings. From Doc:

    "The author of the website 'Shooting the Bull' has gone through the trouble of testing a ton of .380 ammo since the ultra-compact .380 pistols are very popular and published his results in late 2013. If you choose to carry one of these, you may as well try to carry the best there is. The data collected is nicely documented and there are indeed some very decent choices available.

    As you can see, his results appear to be in line with what I've previously observed in regards to those bullets that expand slightly being the best performers. The XTP is well known for limited expansion (which is a serious handicap in most calibers) and that's what helped it here. The HydraShok is also not a recommended bullet design in other calibers, but does well in .380."


    I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, just providing these on the chance you haven't seen them yet.
    It sounds like most recent attempts at .380 JHP have been more successful at least. It makes some sense the JHP that actually does not expand much the one that gets the thumbs up.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 05-13-20 at 11:20.
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  8. #28
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    Interesting.

    I handled and photographed a .380 bullet that killed a drug dealer. Monarch 95 grain JHP. The bullet entered the back, passed between ribs, through the musculature, through the left ventricle of the heart, and ended up under the skin of the chest.

    The victim ran from his driveway into his house, said "I'm shot!", flopped down, gurgled a bit, and expired.

    That bullet showed no deformation. No upset whatsoever of the hollow point. Except for the rifling indentations (shallow, it was a Bersa handgun), it appeared pristine. I didn't have calipers to measure it, but I rolled it on a flat surface. I could reload that bullet and shoot it again, no problem.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    Interesting.

    I handled and photographed a .380 bullet that killed a drug dealer. Monarch 95 grain JHP. The bullet entered the back, passed between ribs, through the musculature, through the left ventricle of the heart, and ended up under the skin of the chest.

    The victim ran from his driveway into his house, said "I'm shot!", flopped down, gurgled a bit, and expired.

    That bullet showed no deformation. No upset whatsoever of the hollow point. Except for the rifling indentations (shallow, it was a Bersa handgun), it appeared pristine. I didn't have calipers to measure it, but I rolled it on a flat surface. I could reload that bullet and shoot it again, no problem.
    Meaning no expansion of a supposed JHP? Lack of reliable performance is why .380 tends to get the thumbs down from those who do third party testing of them. I'm still thinking perhaps a semi wadcutter design might be the best balance between the unreliable JHP and the small wound track etc of the FMJ.
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Meaning no expansion of a supposed JHP? Lack of reliable performance is why .380 tends to get the thumbs down from those who do third party testing of them. I'm still thinking perhaps a semi wadcutter design might be the best balance between the unreliable JHP and the small wound track etc of the FMJ.
    In GSWs that I’ve seen, .380 rarely expands, and when it does, it penetrates poorly. Of course, most shootings happen with garbage ammo. XTP’s do well in jello, so thats what I carry when I carry .380. Worst case, it behaves as a FMJ flat point. Best case, it expands slightly.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

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