Covid 19 Sci/med discussions only

[Adrenaline_6]

he didn't say that at all. Nothing comes without risk, but at the time, the models suggesting the medical system could be severely overwhelmed leading to considerably more deaths, and being they were already well behind the curve with the virus, it made some logical and medical sense. Why we were so behind the curve is another issue of course to be debated another day, but in the context of where we where and so forth, one can understand why that route was chosen.

Had we been better prepared and had a full plan in place of testing, tracking, plenty of PPE, etc, say more similar to S. Korea, such drastic measures could have been avoided, but one also has to take into account things like the size, culture, demographics of the US compared to others.

I tend to think the S. Korean model more applicable to the US than say the Swiss, but I'm not an infectious disease expert either.

Once this crazy chit is done with, there will be a lot of really interesting and useful papers that will get published as the medical/sci equiv of an AAR and lessons learned

Whether we use them to better prepare for the next event is another matter...

My suggestion in the closed thread was to isolate and lockdown the population at risk and let the ones not at risk to march on. That made way more sense. I suggested 2 curves. Flattening the one that mattered and not caring about the one that didn't....because that logically makes sense.

[WillBrink]

Rountable discussion of docs on COVID Ventilation who are in the trenches. Doc 2 doc discussion so lingo heavy:

[WillBrink]

My suggestion in the closed thread was to isolate and lockdown the population at risk and let the ones not at risk to march on. That made way more sense. I suggested 2 curves. Flattening the one that mattered and not caring about the one that didn't....because that logically makes sense.

That's what I discussed in my article on Medium HERE and posted in various places such as the closed thread and so forth.

But, I think due to where we started from per above, it made logical sense from that POV at the time.

However, that was due to being behind the curve and reactive to the virus due to head in sand syndrome from where we began, along with being played by the Chinese and the WHO and such.

[Adrenaline_6]

That's what I discussed in my article on Medium HERE and posted in various places such as the closed thread and so forth.

But, I think due to where we started from per above, it made logical sense from that POV at the time.

However, that was due to being behind the curve and reactive to the virus due to head in sand syndrome from where we began, along with being played by the Chinese and the WHO and such.

Yes, we were given false data from the get go. Most of that bad data was against the severity of COVID, which is what put us behind the curve in the first place. The panic that resulted in being behind the curve and the resultant lock down was more reactionary than data driven though. They played the safe than sorry card to the extreme. Politics and the "protecting" their political career played into those decisions.

[WillBrink]

Additional comments/follow up from Dr. Erickson worth a view:

https://www.kusi.com/dr-daniel-erick...imal-benefits/

[titsonritz]

It’s definitely here.
I actually think much of the public thought it was going to be gone or we would have a vaccine or a cure in a few weeks.

As far as the coagulations issues. Yes, they are real. But I want to iterate, these coagulation issues are not new. They are not specific to COVID. They are seen in multiple other overwhelming bacterial and viral infections. This is important, because the way the news has spun things, people get the impression that COVID uniquely results in-
ERs and ICUs are at capacity
Young healthy people got it and died
Bleeding and clotting disorders
Lung injury
Myocarditis
Etc.

When these are all things that are ongoing all the time, they are not new, they are not unique, many other viruses do this.
They are only new and unique to much of the public.


An ID physician will be a consultant to the ICU doctor managing severe cases in the ICU or the hospitalists with less severe cases not in the ICU. While not a hands on intubater, vent manager, etc. he will likely have Been consulted on all the cases, so will have a good overhead view on all the facility’s admitted COVID patients, their complications, etc.


I actually finally found a graph of another thing I have been trying to convey. It takes the peak NYC impact time frame, and compares it to the same time frame in 2019.



You can see how the majority of the COVID impact is on a pre-existing background of deaths from the conditions of those numbers already dying from those conditions. With a bump from the next months period. My opinion all along has been the key to capacity for the outliers was to shift from futile, end of life care- with an end result being essentially the same number of deaths we were going to have this year, without the societal and financial impact.

It’s a nation outlook vs individual outlook. As an individual I would rather grandpa got to see his great grandson graduate this spring, go to another Memorial Day parade, and die of his metastatic lung cancer in June. As a nation it doesn’t matter if he dies of COVID in April, May, or June and we didn’t have to add trillions in debt and make things horrible for tens of millions of people.

Shift back to individual view. What happens to your son that was supposed to get his big look for his baseball scholarship this spring and then go off to college? Your nephews rescinded job offer from when he gets his engineering degree next month? Your daughters cancelled internship where she hoped to get her comp Sci job next year? Your uncles shattered retirement plans? Your best friends failed business and financial ruin after two decades of blood, sweat, and tears? This has happened to a magnitude more people than a few hundred thousand potential COVID deaths. And a far more significant impact to the nation.

So CV-19 is a cure for all the other ails.

[Life's a Hillary]

Is there evidence that the clotting issue is also tied to preexisting conditions such as diabetes, heart disease, and obesity? From the little reading I’ve done, those things tend to have a higher risk for clotting so add this on top and it would make sense. It seems impossible to understand how this disease acts with otherwise healthy individuals because the data is so messy. Sure it can be happening to young people but that doesn’t mean young people who aren’t diabetic, somewhat athletic, at a healthy weight, and generally healthy.

[Arik]

Any thoughts on this

https://news.yahoo.com/european-doct...112943243.html

LONDON (AP) — Doctors in Britain, Italy, and Spain have been warned to look out for a rare inflammatory condition in children that is possibly linked to the new coronavirus....

[ramairthree]

So CV-19 is a cure for all the other ails.

Well, basically, you can only die from one thing.

If you were diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor with an average life span of 8 months in March 2019, and show up in a hospital with altered mental status COViD + and die,
Or you have severe end stage heart failure and other problems and wouldn’t survive a heart transplant and live on a Milrinone drip for the past year and show up and die and are COVID +,
And literally, NYC has done this,
You are a hospice patient expected to die in the next week or two, and become COVID +,

These are all COVID deaths.

But the reality is,
It’s like saying the crown of thorns is what killed the guy nailed to a cross and pierced with a spear.

[ramairthree]

Any thoughts on this

https://news.yahoo.com/european-doct...112943243.html

LONDON (AP) — Doctors in Britain, Italy, and Spain have been warned to look out for a rare inflammatory condition in children that is possibly linked to the new coronavirus....

This is entirely possible, one and a handful of other similar syndromes like this are well known.
There has long been arguments about a genetic predisposition (more common in some genetically distinct populations than others), an autoimmune disorder, a triggered by infection Disorder, or some combination of them as there seems to be some season, geographic, And possibly wind components.

Remember, this is not something new and not something specific to corona virus nor even definitively linked.

Everything this virus does has been seen before and is not something new.

It is 85-90% coded the same as another virus we are familiar with.

But...
We sure are focusing on it more than any other has been and it gets way more press and these things are the first time much of the public has ever heard about them.

Now about that other 14% of code,
It Certainly may be entirely natural,
And as I have noted the press and magnifying glass is off the charts on it,
But it almost seems as if it was tailored to be an extra pain in the ass.