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Thread: The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

  1. #1
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    The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

    I’ve been putting some thought into this lately and seems there’s plenty of other threads that touch on this in some way or another, but nothing really diving into this topic like I would prefer.

    What would be your One Gun/General Purpose carbine setup that gives you everything from CQB out to 400yds at any time of day (or night)? Is it possible to cram all that capability into one platform (and do it well) or is having two uppers set up differently the way to go?

    Parameters for this carbine:
    1) 0-400 capable
    2) Day and Night capable
    3) Stay light enough to be easily carried in the field

    For the first parameter I’ve settled on a “Mini-RECCE” suppressed 12.5” upper with an LPVO (for me currently: NF NX8) as I believe it’s the sweet spot between maneuverability and external/terminal ballistics at range. Even with a 6” suppressor, it’s not much longer than an unsuppressed 16”. Im sure some would say that an 11.5” bbl can work the same, and that’s fine, I just prefer that extra velocity for the range envelope we’re looking for. Add in a capable white light and sling and call it a day.

    For me, this is pretty well cut and dry until you start talking about low/no light capability.

    It’s pretty well noted that a RDS shines over a LPVO when it comes to low/no light and especially when we’re talking working with NV. So this is where a wrench is thrown into one gun solution.

    Do you roll with an IR laser/illum on your “Mini-RECCE” for target acquisition and deal with the limitations of your day optic, or do you have a separate (10.5”-11.5” suppressed) upper with RDS to handle the night time capability?

    (For the purpose of this exercise let’s assume that night capability is referring to mostly CQB with possible 100yd or less engagements under NODs...no clip on NVDs, only active aiming devices).
    Last edited by Ironman8; 10-19-20 at 21:07.

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    I had a long talk with John Noveske one time, and somewhere in it he commented that if he could only have one AR15, he would make sure it was a 12.5” barrel, because it was just about the perfect all around length when you figured out velocity and any reliability trade offs.
    Stick


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    Theoretically speaking...because I am not a pipehitter.

    I currently set up my 12.5” Kino as the all around carbine. MRO in ADM QD mount, and Vortex PST 1-4x in GG&G QD mount (until it sells...), both zero’d with IMI Razorcore 77 gr. I currently have a BCM/Troy rear BUIS “in case.” Warcomp for an eventual suppressor purchase. And low light flash suppression. That said, I’m not entirely sold on the 400yd with a 12.5” barrel, particularly with a 1-4x.
    So, I have the parts to have Citizen Arms put together a 16” upper, with a Leopold 3-9x and offset older Insight MRDS. I like to imagine these two uppers check the boxes for most situations.

    My second rifle has a Colt CCU upper with PST 1-6x. I would take this over state lines into IL. Besides that... I always grab the 12.5” to go shooting.
    To go with this lower, I also have an 11.5” suppressed-only upper that BRT put together for me, just waiting on the direct thread suppressor to clear. End goal there is to set that up for NODs.

    Ultimately, I think my less-experienced plans mirror what you’re describing. I have a feeling I’ll end up selling off the CCU upper, as much as I like it. The 12.5” do-all, 16” recce, and 11.5” night-bumps seem to check all possible boxes for me.
    “God doesn’t need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168
    7.5” is the Ed Hardy of barrel lengths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I had a long talk with John Noveske one time, and somewhere in it he commented that if he could only have one AR15, he would make sure it was a 12.5” barrel, because it was just about the perfect all around length when you figured out velocity and any reliability trade offs.
    Right, but that’s only half the equation. How do you set that gun up for low/no light?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JediGuy View Post
    Theoretically speaking...because I am not a pipehitter.

    I currently set up my 12.5” Kino as the all around carbine. MRO in ADM QD mount, and Vortex PST 1-4x in GG&G QD mount (until it sells...), both zero’d with IMI Razorcore 77 gr. I currently have a BCM/Troy rear BUIS “in case.” Warcomp for an eventual suppressor purchase. And low light flash suppression. That said, I’m not entirely sold on the 400yd with a 12.5” barrel, particularly with a 1-4x.
    So, I have the parts to have Citizen Arms put together a 16” upper, with a Leopold 3-9x and offset older Insight MRDS. I like to imagine these two uppers check the boxes for most situations.

    My second rifle has a Colt CCU upper with PST 1-6x. I would take this over state lines into IL. Besides that... I always grab the 12.5” to go shooting.
    To go with this lower, I also have an 11.5” suppressed-only upper that BRT put together for me, just waiting on the direct thread suppressor to clear. End goal there is to set that up for NODs.

    Ultimately, I think my less-experienced plans mirror what you’re describing. I have a feeling I’ll end up selling off the CCU upper, as much as I like it. The 12.5” do-all, 16” recce, and 11.5” night-bumps seem to check all possible boxes for me.
    In a perfect world I would say the same thing, all three would fill each role nicely. 11.5” for CQB, 12.5” Do All 0-400, and a 16” RECCE for out to 600. Personally, I’ve taken an 11.7” barrel with NX8 out to 600 and have no issues calling it a solid 400 yd gun. Past 400, hits start to get a little harder with wind and other weather. That’s where my thoughts on the 12.5” come from.

    But, hypothetically speaking, how would I want a gun configured if I wanted to fill all parameters outlined above and could only grab one? Or would I need to grab a full gun + specialized upper to complete the package? That’s what I’m driving at for this discussion.
    Last edited by Ironman8; 04-16-20 at 22:47.

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    With a great barrel and an experienced shooter, I’d say the 12.5.” Free-float a Kino with a Centurion C4 M-LOK, but with some sort of barrel that tapers to use a .625 FSP rather than BCM’s .750. There’s going to be a (relative) ton of weight out front already, between the night vision stuff, flashlight, and FSP.
    PEQ15, Reptilia smaller body light. At least what I’ve found is that if it’s getting crowded and heavy, I’ll probably want a foregrip.
    When it comes to optics... I’m thinking your NF is a lot lighter than my PST 1-6x, so keep that and offset a MRDS or T-2/clone.
    Short suppressor, like the Saker K or Surefire whatever.

    That’s still going to be a heavy gun to haul around, once you consider we’re at quaternary sighting systems. So trim down by foregoing the Kino setup and rear BUIS. That saves a couple ounces, and you keep the offset RDS for use under NODs.

    I’m spitballing.
    “God doesn’t need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168
    7.5” is the Ed Hardy of barrel lengths.

  7. #7
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    My go-to is either a 14.5 with a short can, or an 11.5 with a larger can.
    Both with an LPVO, light, and IR laser/flood.
    I have gone past 1k with the 14.5 and purpose-oriented ammo.
    The overall length and weight of both is very similar.
    The 11.5 shines indoors due to the more effective suppressor, while the 14.5 takes over once past pistol-caliber range.
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    Ah, the quest for the unobtainable.

    I'm more of a 11.5" because if you are going short, go short & 14.5/16" because you gain a lot with those inches.

    I have all 3 but I'm not gonna start selling because of internet gymnastics.

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    My 16" LMT with the Steiner PXi 1X4 & Inforce 800 lumen light fills the bill for me.
    I am going to switch to 69gr. IMI for standard HD/SHTF soon as I can get stocked up enough.
    I have only limited experience with the shorty AR's, and Lord knows Im no "pipehitter" either..but to me, FOR me, I love a 16" gun.
    The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    My go-to is either a 14.5 with a short can, or an 11.5 with a larger can.
    Both with an LPVO, light, and IR laser/flood.
    I have gone past 1k with the 14.5 and purpose-oriented ammo.
    The overall length and weight of both is very similar.
    The 11.5 shines indoors due to the more effective suppressor, while the 14.5 takes over once past pistol-caliber range.
    I know you use the IR laser for aiming at night under NODs, but when you have to go IR to vis spectrum quickly, how do handle the LPVO in that situation? My understanding is that’s where an RDS works well in comparison since you don’t have the eye relief limitations. Keep in mind I’ve had about a 4 hr block of instruction on NODs from Pressburg and that’s the extent of my knowledge other than reading things here and there.

    And back more on topic, which do you pick for the 0-400 parameters in the OP if you had to just pick one?

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