The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[Biggy]

For a 400 yds and in LPV, *I* still prefer my second focal plane, 16.9 ounce, K16i, with it's generous eye box and it's huge field of view. If I would need past 400 yds capability much, *I* would choose the 4.6 oz heavier, 21.5 oz Vortex Gen 3 Razor 1-10X, LPV. *I* would probably also put it on a 16 inch barreled rifle.

[ScottsBad]

Excellent thread, I'm picking up quite a bit of info. Our intention is to move to a free State (we're 2 years past due), and I want to take advantage of short barrels and NFA items.

As a civilian, when I think of a GP rifle, I think of the rifle I would grab first when I leave the house, don't know what I will encounter, or when I will come back.

It changes the definition, for me, if I know what the mission will be and when I'll come back.

I don't want to change the direction of the thread, but does that definition change anyone's rifle build?

[hotrodder636]

That is what I was looking for, thanks.

I shoot both, with both. I prefer the carbine gas system. It is more reliable.

I am looking to put a 12.5” upper together with Criterion barrel, Geissele rail. This thread popped up at the right time.

[pointblank4445]

Excellent thread, I'm picking up quite a bit of info. Our intention is to move to a free State (we're 2 years past due), and I want to take advantage of short barrels and NFA items.

As a civilian, when I think of a GP rifle, I think of the rifle I would grab first when I leave the house, don't know what I will encounter, or when I will come back.

It changes the definition, for me, if I know what the mission will be and when I'll come back.

I don't want to change the direction of the thread, but does that definition change anyone's rifle build?

Same. I have a CQB/night fighting-oriented rig; an SPR/DMR rig that while mission-specific are still somewhat versatile, but my "the one-gun" setup is the most adaptive and versatile with a lot of trial and error in finding the proper balance in being fully capable while not being a disproportionate pig or worse...the "jack-of-all, master-of-none" abomination that does nothing well.

[MQ105]

I'm curious what more experienced people would say about maxing out high power mag on a 12.5 gun. If the 1-10 has all things on 1x equal to the 1-6, I assume the only downside is cost. But I'd be curious how many people think that much mag on a short gun is stupid. Personally, 6x doesn't help with shooting groups at 100m as much as I'd hope so I feel like its viable, especially when you're talking PID and observation considerations over actual accuracy.

I think the major advantage to the magnification is PID. This is not only applicable at range, but through windows.

[ScottsBad]

Same. I have a CQB/night fighting-oriented rig; an SPR/DMR rig that while mission-specific are still somewhat versatile, but my "the one-gun" setup is the most adaptive and versatile with a lot of trial and error in finding the proper balance in being fully capable while not being a disproportionate pig or worse...the "jack-of-all, master-of-none" abomination that does nothing well.

Thanks to the thread for all the ideas and considerations.

True, and for me it means that I'll have to prioritize. Short barrels do improve handling in tight spaces and help concealment in the open. The question I'm left with; Is there a meaningful reduction in reliability and is it an acceptable risk. MTBF (based on round count) if I'm out there for a longer period of time. Can I mitigate any downside by packing spare parts.

Is a lower velocity acceptable in a GP rifle? I'm thinking it is for 95+% of shots to 300 with a Mk262 type round, but what about a 55gr pill?

I'm a fan of LVPOs but I only have three old school tubes, and several APs and MROs. Will I use NV? Well, I've been very close to buying a PVS 14 several times, but I'm not excited about headgear. Remember, I'm a civi, its for HD.

Also, I don't know how to get a decent IR laser. I'm pretty sure the civilian versions will be weak sauce crap. So NV is up in the air as a targeting device, but for threat detection I think its a must have. For my needs.

Has anyone tried thermal? Trijicon has a nice small thermal scope, but its 7-8K.

So, I think I will build a pistol, with a 12.5" barrel, haven't decided on the gas system. I'll stick a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO on it with a T2 in my pack, and muffle it with a robust can. I'll figure out NV later.

[Wake27]

Thanks to the thread for all the ideas and considerations.

True, and for me it means that I'll have to prioritize. Short barrels do improve handling in tight spaces and help concealment in the open. The question I'm left with; Is there a meaningful reduction in reliability and is it an acceptable risk. MTBF (based on round count) if I'm out there for a longer period of time. Can I mitigate any downside by packing spare parts.

Is a lower velocity acceptable in a GP rifle? I'm thinking it is for 95+% of shots to 300 with a Mk262 type round, but what about a 55gr pill?

I'm a fan of LVPOs but I only have three old school tubes, and several APs and MROs. Will I use NV? Well, I've been very close to buying a PVS 14 several times, but I'm not excited about headgear. Remember, I'm a civi, its for HD.

Also, I don't know how to get a decent IR laser. I'm pretty sure the civilian versions will be weak sauce crap. So NV is up in the air as a targeting device, but for threat detection I think its a must have. For my needs.

Has anyone tried thermal? Trijicon has a nice small thermal scope, but its 7-8K.

So, I think I will build a pistol, with a 12.5" barrel, haven't decided on the gas system. I'll stick a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO on it with a T2 in my pack, and muffle it with a robust can. I'll figure out NV later.

I don’t think civilian lasers are weak. Weaker sure, but they’re absolutely usable.


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[pointblank4445]

Has anyone tried thermal? Trijicon has a nice small thermal scope, but its 7-8K.

Thermal to find, NV to identify.

Awesome for hunting, but a dedicated Thermal weapon scope might not be the best use of funds in this context...for most.

[Ironman8]

I look at it this way....
Consider armor/plate selection by anyone state-side (LE or civilian) and the proliferation of M855 green tip. One who is purchasing a rifle plate has to factor in the consideration that the likelihood of M855 being used against them is viable and it's a gamble to overlook the ability to defeat it.

I feel similarly with the increased proliferation of NV equipment among the average user. I know SEVERAL cheapo farmers that with their junk NV predator hunter units could cause problems for dudes who (as Doc put it) make the night look like a Floyd show. We've had a long stint overseas where our military is exploiting our enemy's lack of tech/capability and that's not necessarily the case here with NV becoming more prolific.

Don't get me wrong, IR lasers and NV freaking rock, but I don't want to assume anymore that I'm the only kid on my block with that ability.

I'm only foregoing it from a mere value/use standpoint. I still have the ability to aim and shoot stuff under NV and it's passive. It's not the best but it's an option...and my tactics are impacted by my choices. With the IR laser/illuminator, I found that I would make compromises on my optic mount height/field of view obstruction or switchology/light location to allow for it despite the infrequency that the capability was used by my team....or you have something like a MAWL with a hefty cost penalty (or civilian rated junk that costs too much for the limited capability).

If the Covid thing has taught me anything, it's not that I have any gear deficiencies...rather that I wish I live on a bigger piece of land and that $2800 might be better suited for that endeavor rather than tech that will be out of date in 10 years...

But that's my take on it.

Interesting take and thanks for taking the time to explain. I'm definitely leaning toward trying the piggyback MRDS as a backup to day/active IR target acquisition after your and Jack's posts here. Sounds like it's really the only mousetrap that works when running the LPVO as a day optic. And I do understand your thought process on the passive vs. active anti-detection considerations and one that I really haven't thought about...although my limited understanding of IR laser/illumination TTP's is basically to treat it like it's white light and you should be fine in that respect.

As for the bolded part, I was just talking about that with a family member. Having a place outside of the city is now a much higher priority. If Covid was truly a deadly bug, things would have gotten real sporty, real fast with how our media works. I'll just try to have both the tech and land

[vicious_cb]

I don’t think civilian lasers are weak. Weaker sure, but they’re absolutely usable.


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The MAWL C+ doesnt give up anything over a restricted PEQ-15.