The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[Tx_Aggie]

It's not a new idea, many have run offset RDS. But most would never consider flipping the roles between the offset and the magnified, and thus most offset mounts were designed, naturally, as a "back-up" solution... tucking away the offset RDS and making it extremely hard to use.

The idea of using an offset red dot as a primary optic for close range shooting, with an LPVO (or ACOG) at 12:00 for mid to long range targets, isn't really new either.

Multigun competition shooters have been doing this in open/unlimited division for quite a while.

Jerry M is one example. He's been doing it since at least 2008 (the first time I remember seeing him with an offset dot at a match), probably longer.

A YouTube vid from back in 2013:



That dot isn't being used as a "backup" optic...


But I think this thread is supposed to be about a rifle that's useful with NVG as well as in daylight. If your 1.93 offset mount will work with NODs, I suppose that's more inline with the spirit of the thread than a dot at lower 1/3 or absolute cowitness height.

[Styer]

How well does the offset RDS work when shooting offhand? Or are you then using the LVPO as the primary?
I have a Leupold VX-R 3-9x40 that is quite light that I've been thinking of trying out in combination with the new Holosun 509t that's coming out for a very lightweight setup that has almost all the same functionality of my Razor 1-10x, minus good wind holds, but with a clearer bigger eyebox at the top end of the magnification. Just have never tried an offset RDS and can't wrap my head around how it's used shooting offhand.

[daddyusmaximus]

I don't really have a "one gun solution' AR, but I do have an AR that's the "one gun" I'll be reaching for if things go bad. It's a 10.3" Daniel Defense pistol with a red dot, so it's more of a defensive weapon. In my area, and for my needs, it fits the bill. I don't anticipate the need to be engaging at 400 yds. I do have a 3x magnifier for it, and I suppose I could put on a LPVO. I have a PA 1-8 I like a great deal due to the ACSS reticle, but I always seem to go back to the red dot. (Comp M4s) It's just so simple, and quick, and I really don't need anything more to defend myself with around here. As a matter of fact, I recently had it up for sale to raise money to get my first suppressor. I had put the Primary Arms 1-8 on the pistol, but after training with it a couple days, I just confirmed that I liked the Aimpoint better on my defensive gun. I'll get my suppressor some other way...

A lot of people like a longer barrel, but the shortness of the 10.3" in combination with the folding stock means it travels well in a small indiscreet bag, or even in my regular bag with my clothes. The main thing about any defensive weapon, is having it with you when you need it. I like the idea of the mini-recce, and I think it's probably on my to do list now, but having my 10.3" with me... is a damn sight better than a pinned 14.5" or 16" that's sitting at home.

[Valhalla]

The idea of using an offset red dot as a primary optic for close range shooting, with an LPVO (or ACOG) at 12:00 for mid to long range targets, isn't really new either.

Multigun competition shooters have been doing this in open/unlimited division for quite a while.

Jerry M is one example. He's been doing it since at least 2008 (the first time I remember seeing him with an offset dot at a match), probably longer.

A YouTube vid from back in 2013:



That dot isn't being used as a "backup" optic...


But I think this thread is supposed to be about a rifle that's useful with NVG as well as in daylight. If your 1.93 offset mount will work with NODs, I suppose that's more inline with the spirit of the thread than a dot at lower 1/3 or absolute cowitness height.

Well good, thanks for the video and now I know we are not the only crazy SOB here!! Seriously though, I know this is not a new and we never claimed we "invented" this. It's just that most people don't think that way. Take this thread as an example, 20-some-pages had been posted, and how many time someone mentioned "offset as primary"?

As to NVGs, yes 1.93 height is much more NVG friendly, and once you get used to that cheek weld, your posture for both day-and-night shooting would remain largely the same. Even if the LPVO did get in the way, you'd just have to push the gun slightly forward; no difference from what you have to do with a piggy-backed dot over ACOG, except the ACOG's terrible eye-relieve will require you to move your gun forward a LOT more. Nonetheless, I find the consistency in cheek weld (by simply rotating the gun) valuable for maintaining speed and accuracy, as compared to using traditional piggy-backed MRDS. It's all about maintaining sight height over bore.



VT

[officerX]

I had a long talk with John Noveske one time, and somewhere in it he commented that if he could only have one AR15, he would make sure it was a 12.5” barrel, because it was just about the perfect all around length when you figured out velocity and any reliability trade offs.

I've seen you post this in the past and it was one of the deciding factors for me building a 12.5" SBR. I went with a BCM barrel for a few different reason, none of which I'll discuss here since it's not relevant to this thread.

[ASH556]

nevermind.

[1168]

Whats the hight above rail in the center of that RMR on top of the TA11?

[ASH556]

nope.

[mig1nc]

I replied with the first pic earlier in this thread. From having tried piles of optics over the years I honestly believed that a "one gun" solution was not a reality. The one thing I'd never tried before and really wanted to was the piggyback RMR on the ACOG. The TA11 specifically because it is the most forgiving ACOG. Huge FOV compared to the TA33, but massive eye relief compared to the TA31. Sure it's bigger and heavier than those models, but at 14oz it's still lighter than pretty much all LPVO's, especially once you factor in the mount. The ACOG glass is marvelous and those that have shot a lot know that glass quality trumps magnification. If you look back a few pages you'll see a 10-shot .88 MOA group I fired at 100yds with Speer Gold Dot from a COLT 14.5" barrel using a TA11 ACOG. The point is, that if you have the right reticle and good glass, 3.5X magnification can be better than 6X or 8X with worse glass and reticle. Adding the RMR on top of the ACOG is NOT the chin-weld everyone said it would be. I find it to be far faster to move my head slightly up/down to switch between the optics and it's faster than rolling the gun...at least for me. I've had offset dot and irons setups in the past and they were nowhere near as fast and intuitive as the piggyback RMR.

Like @Valhalla I treat the RMR as the primary sight and then drop into the ACOG when the shot calls for it (Precision, distance, whatever).

Mark 10:8 “...and the two shall become one.”

Have you tried rolling the RMR to your left eye?

This makes me want to go try a Leupold D-EVO.


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[ASH556]

forget it