The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[Leftie]

It has veered off topic a bit. I listed my 12.5 "one gun solution" and am glad that I withdrew it before it sold. I shot my Knight's 14.5 at yesterday's comp and it felt longer than I remember after shooting my 12.5 and 10.3 uppers for the past few months. So ideal gun has a 12.5 upper, ideal optic for me is still the 1-10 Razor and while I shot it without an offset RDS yesterday and it was still solid, I like the options an offset or top mounted MRDS gives me.

Funny that you mention that, as I was VERY close to messaging you (it was the 12.5 Hodge upper, if I recall correctly). Actually thanks to your post, I started thinking about the "one gun solution" more, and am very much in the camp that a high quality 12.5" with a variable power optic that gives you between 3-10x magnification on the high end ticks nearly every box that I can pragmatically think of. Add in your choice of light, sling, and 1x sighting solution, and there's a decent case to be made that, with good ammunition, any barrel length greater than 12.5" and less than 18" is kind of a waste of time for a "one gun solution". This thinking might change with a suppressor involved, as putting a can on any barrel length increases OAL, changes the balance, and also changes the relative reliability of the system shooting suppressed/unsuppressed.

My thinking does however make a few assumptions, those being that you aren't encumbered by the necessity for a 16.1" OAL, you understand exterior ballistics and can apply them pragmatically, and that you are willing to let a complex and individualized requirement that you have for your "one gun solution" be informed by data (mostly trajectory/wind deflection for your barrel/ammo combo) and by your reasonable expectations as to what you will need to do with that gun.

MountainRaven, that's a slick looking rifle! is that a TriArc 12.5" upper? If so, how do you like it?

[Wake27]

Funny that you mention that, as I was VERY close to messaging you (it was the 12.5 Hodge upper, if I recall correctly). Actually thanks to your post, I started thinking about the "one gun solution" more, and am very much in the camp that a high quality 12.5" with a variable power optic that gives you between 3-10x magnification on the high end ticks nearly every box that I can pragmatically think of. Add in your choice of light, sling, and 1x sighting solution, and there's a decent case to be made that, with good ammunition, any barrel length greater than 12.5" and less than 18" is kind of a waste of time for a "one gun solution". This thinking might change with a suppressor involved, as putting a can on any barrel length increases OAL, changes the balance, and also changes the relative reliability of the system shooting suppressed/unsuppressed.

My thinking does however make a few assumptions, those being that you aren't encumbered by the necessity for a 16.1" OAL, you understand exterior ballistics and can apply them pragmatically, and that you are willing to let a complex and individualized requirement that you have for your "one gun solution" be informed by data (mostly trajectory/wind deflection for your barrel/ammo combo) and by your reasonable expectations as to what you will need to do with that gun.

MountainRaven, that's a slick looking rifle! is that a TriArc 12.5" upper? If so, how do you like it?

Yeah I'm really glad my wife talked me into keeping that one. I took it out to 400yd once in a competition and it went about how you'd expect since I'd never shot it past 100 until then - just didn't have the time and new it would be risky. That said, shots to 300yd were surprisingly easy. There were three targets at 400 that I par'd out on before making hits but that was entirely my fault. I was obviously holding high b/c of the range and shorter barrel plus 75gr .223 ammo. Where I messed up is remembering that I had a 50yd zero and drop off from 300-400 is significant. As soon as I started movement to the next stage the lightbulb went on... Again, a little better prep before hand would've negated this but oh well. That was the only time I felt "under-gunned" vs a longer barrel and am willing to bet that had I considered my zero and held higher, it wouldn't have been nearly an issue.

With Hodge barrels being as hard to find as they are, I'd absolutely backorder a Criterion Core in 12.5 if I was building this upper again and you can pair it with a headspaced bolt on their site.

[MountainRaven]

MountainRaven, that's a slick looking rifle! is that a TriArc 12.5" upper? If so, how do you like it?

Only thing TriArc is the Trilock rail. Which is just a placeholder until Hodge gets S-lock rails on the commercial market. Which, I presume, will be about two minutes before the Second Coming.

[TehLlama]

What would be your One Gun/General Purpose carbine setup that gives you everything from CQB out to 400yds at any time of day (or night)? Is it possible to cram all that capability into one platform (and do it well) or is having two uppers set up differently the way to go?

Parameters for this carbine:
1) 0-400 capable
2) Day and Night capable
3) Stay light enough to be easily carried in the field

Ultimately, you're just losing the lightness/maneuverability slightly, or the longer range capability for anything but soft targets, but those are all quite reasonable tradeoffs big picture.

I've got a couple of 14.5" and 16" short-can setups with LPVO's that really fit the bill impressively well with integrating NOD capability and keeping things light and tight, but practically it's still hard to argue that a 12.5-13.7" flavored setup with that capability envelope would fit the bill extremely well.
Folding offset irons help more than I expected on the quest for lightweight, as do 3V lights. What really did me in for achieving this was the desire to have capability to hit consistently out to 550yd (crayon eater background), which had me trend towards longer and heavier profile barrels given the longer can options, and that's where the ease of carriage takes a massive hit on mine, and I wind up with a sort of dumb dichotomy between a Mk18 flavored setup, and the LPVO do-everything, that actually more closely resembles a Recce setup.

[Leftie]

Yeah I'm really glad my wife talked me into keeping that one. I took it out to 400yd once in a competition and it went about how you'd expect since I'd never shot it past 100 until then - just didn't have the time and new it would be risky. That said, shots to 300yd were surprisingly easy. There were three targets at 400 that I par'd out on before making hits but that was entirely my fault. I was obviously holding high b/c of the range and shorter barrel plus 75gr .223 ammo. Where I messed up is remembering that I had a 50yd zero and drop off from 300-400 is significant. As soon as I started movement to the next stage the lightbulb went on... Again, a little better prep before hand would've negated this but oh well. That was the only time I felt "under-gunned" vs a longer barrel and am willing to bet that had I considered my zero and held higher, it wouldn't have been nearly an issue.

With Hodge barrels being as hard to find as they are, I'd absolutely backorder a Criterion Core in 12.5 if I was building this upper again and you can pair it with a headspaced bolt on their site.

I don't blame you on keeping it - that's a great, great upper. Great to know about the Criterion barrels coming with a headspaced bolt option, which is sorely under-rated I think.

MountainRaven, makes sense - I think that there are many people patiently waiting for more Hodge rifles, uppers, and components to be released to the masses.

[Wake27]

I don't blame you on keeping it - that's a great, great upper. Great to know about the Criterion barrels coming with a headspaced bolt option, which is sorely under-rated I think.

MountainRaven, makes sense - I think that there are many people patiently waiting for more Hodge rifles, uppers, and components to be released to the masses.

The groups I've seen posted from them are stupid impressive. Wish I could find the photos.

[Core781]

Check your data on the 12.5" for 400 "yards." You may need special unobtainable ammo to get good kill energy at 400. I would switch to 400 meters in your thinking, because most military grade sights etc operate in meters. I would lean towards a 14.5" myself for a one gun solution because it gets out to 600 meters easily. It's also handy in most tight spaces: vehicles unmounted you can use a pistol. A 10" is slower to employ than a pistol in a vehicle so consider a good secondary hip holstered pistol to go with your one gun solution... Reality? Not as effective as running a secondary combo. If you have open country and your threat has a hunting/SPR/DMR rifle you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. 18" SPR or RECCE rifle LPVO with a pistol is probably ideal.

[Wake27]

Check your data on the 12.5" for 400 "yards." You may need special unobtainable ammo to get good kill energy at 400. I would switch to 400 meters in your thinking, because most military grade sights etc operate in meters. I would lean towards a 14.5" myself for a one gun solution because it gets out to 600 meters easily. It's also handy in most tight spaces: vehicles unmounted you can use a pistol. A 10" is slower to employ than a pistol in a vehicle so consider a good secondary hip holstered pistol to go with your one gun solution... Reality? Not as effective as running a secondary combo. If you have open country and your threat has a hunting/SPR/DMR rifle you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. 18" SPR or RECCE rifle LPVO with a pistol is probably ideal.

I didn’t set the targets, the match directors chose yards so that’s what it was...

And a 12.5 can’t kill at 400m but a 14.5 can at 600? Interesting logic considering general rule of thumb is a 100FPS velocity drop for every inch of barrel.


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[docsherm]

Check your data on the 12.5" for 400 "yards." You may need special unobtainable ammo to get good kill energy at 400. I would switch to 400 meters in your thinking, because most military grade sights etc operate in meters. I would lean towards a 14.5" myself for a one gun solution because it gets out to 600 meters easily. It's also handy in most tight spaces: vehicles unmounted you can use a pistol. A 10" is slower to employ than a pistol in a vehicle so consider a good secondary hip holstered pistol to go with your one gun solution... Reality? Not as effective as running a secondary combo. If you have open country and your threat has a hunting/SPR/DMR rifle you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. 18" SPR or RECCE rifle LPVO with a pistol is probably ideal.

I and several members for the Taliban will disagree with your thoughts on how effective a 12.5 barrel and MK262 is at 400 m.

[Eurodriver]

Check your data on the 12.5" for 400 "yards." You may need special unobtainable ammo to get good kill energy at 400. I would switch to 400 meters in your thinking, because most military grade sights etc operate in meters. I would lean towards a 14.5" myself for a one gun solution because it gets out to 600 meters easily. It's also handy in most tight spaces: vehicles unmounted you can use a pistol. A 10" is slower to employ than a pistol in a vehicle so consider a good secondary hip holstered pistol to go with your one gun solution... Reality? Not as effective as running a secondary combo. If you have open country and your threat has a hunting/SPR/DMR rifle you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. 18" SPR or RECCE rifle LPVO with a pistol is probably ideal.

Why did you place the word yards in quotation marks?