The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[Eurodriver]

I had a long talk with John Noveske one time, and somewhere in it he commented that if he could only have one AR15, he would make sure it was a 12.5” barrel, because it was just about the perfect all around length when you figured out velocity and any reliability trade offs.

I remember you, and DocSherm saying this before, and I heeded it. I took heed. I took head?

Idk. I did it, though. 12.5" Noveske Crusader is one of my favorite guns. I shot with DocSherm using that setup and he kept rambling about how smart I was for finally listening to him...

I think me, Docsherm, and RTX are all in this one photo with 12.5s

Ash and I have both taken 1st place with 11.5" KAC guns, however the matches that we do so at didn't go out much past 400 yards, and most stages really didn't favor dedicated rigs.
At that time we were also competing in the PRS Gas Gun Series, and shooting at 400 with 11.5" 5.56 guns was a pretty good simulation of shooting at 600-800 with our competition setups. We thought it would be way cooler to go out and have fun with little guns than crush a local match with our optimized guns.

...what Jack is neglecting to mention here is that he still crushes local matches with "little" guns, too.

lol, in other words "I buy the cheap stuff because I am broke and it's just as good as".

[alx01]

12.5" Noveske Crusader is one of my favorite guns.

What accuracy are you getting with it at a longer distances (200m+)?

I've seen some shorter guns (11.5") which were very accurate up to 200m (under 2moa), but past 250m accuracy dropped like crazy (4-6+ moa). Don't know if that's an inherit nature of shorter barrels, bullet stabilization, velocity factor or something else.

[Run N Shoot]

I am trying to get a one gun solution set up right now. So far: 14.5” p&w, Viper 1x6 and a WMLx. Since I am still keeping a very low profile at work ( terminations and furloughs ongoing) there are no plans for a suppressor or NV but I want to get this zero’d and take a class to see how it goes.

[crossgun]

So for my set up Night Vision and CQB is a must have vs the longer distance. That being said my abilities in day and night must be and are equal and built around a maximum range of 300 yards as I just dont see the need for more vs what I would have to gain or loose for my ultimate GB carbine. They only thing that effects the Night Vision side is atmospheric conditions. Some evenings the weather just will not let you play at the longer ranges. As mentioned LPVOs are a no go for Night Vision work and I find them slower for CQB. Another must for me is having the ability to shoot passive at night which again eliminates the scoped optic as its just impossible to get behind them with binos.

Current go to rig is a 11.5" barrel on a 10.5" rail with Omega can. Running an Aimpoint T2 in a Unity FAST Micro Mount with a 5X Aimpoint magnifier in the Unity FAST MAG Mount. Supported by 18650 Modlite and MAWL. If forced to give up one of the items it would be the magnifier as it doesn't really get that much use and typically comes off at dark. Nothing at all I cant do from a combat perspective with this set up. My carbine is supported also with a 14.5 upper with LPVO as a "kit" or thought for that extended range but in my opinion not worth the hump or little gain. It might see a roll if I was operating from a fixed location and taking day patrols but I would hate to be caught with it after dark.

[mig1nc]

Ash and I have both taken 1st place with 11.5" KAC guns, however the matches that we do so at didn't go out much past 400 yards, and most stages really didn't favor dedicated rigs.
At that time we were also competing in the PRS Gas Gun Series, and shooting at 400 with 11.5" 5.56 guns was a pretty good simulation of shooting at 600-800 with our competition setups. We thought it would be way cooler to go out and have fun with little guns than crush a local match with our optimized guns.

Hey, I remember when you talked about that on the Primary and Secondary Modcast! Cool stuff.

I have a question about the choice of barrel length here.

Wouldn't it make sense to decide on ammo, figure out the minimum velocity to achieve that round's designed terminal effect (frag vs expand etc...) Then figure out what barrel length is required to achieve that at the desired range?


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[PatrioticDisorder]

Ah, the quest for the unobtainable.

I'm more of a 11.5" because if you are going short, go short & 14.5/16" because you gain a lot with those inches.

I have all 3 but I'm not gonna start selling because of internet gymnastics.

A member on TOS did some interesting testing a couple years back with 10.5/11.5/12.5/14.5/16. With velocity you gain very little going from 10.5-11.5, there is a rather large jump in velocity going from 11.5-12.5 and very little increase going from 12.5-14.5, some increase going to 16. This was load dependent of course, 5.56 FMJ seemed to have some benefit going from 12.5-14.5, everything else gained little or nothing.

[Don Robison]

Take whatever AR you have, put Ultradyne irons on it (easily move from 0 to 400 yards), and adjustable white light for no light, and maybe a visible laser for low light. Or you can scrap you rifle, spend thousands and thousands of dollars on short barrels, Aimpoints, night vision and IR lasers.

You can't honestly be serious??




For me LPVO, PEQ15 and suppressor on 12.5" gun is my go to for the past few years.

[1168]

A member on TOS did some interesting testing a couple years back with 10.5/11.5/12.5/14.5/16. With velocity you gain very little going from 10.5-11.5, there is a rather large jump in velocity going from 11.5-12.5 and very little increase going from 12.5-14.5, some increase going to 16. This was load dependent of course, 5.56 FMJ seemed to have some benefit going from 12.5-14.5, everything else gained little or nothing.

Its dependent on the individual barrel. My 12.3” just about matches my 16” and my 14.5 beats it. Every barrel is different.

[RobertTheTexan]

I remember you, and DocSherm saying this before, and I heeded it. I took heed. I took head?

Idk. I did it, though. 12.5" Noveske Crusader is one of my favorite guns. I shot with DocSherm using that setup and he kept rambling about how smart I was for finally listening to him...

I think me, Docsherm, and RTX are all in this one photo with 12.5s

For starters, you just like that picture because it shows your hiney. Secondly, didn't I shoot your 12.5 with the BCM Flex-O-Rail? I think that's when your ACOG dotted me 'twixt the eyes and made me bleed on it. Good thing we weren't in COVID Quarantine or you would have had to quarantine your optic for 30 days.

[gaucho1]

Sure looks like the guy in orange is somewhat down range. Am I seeing this wrong?

In any case, great thread. Barrel length vs. velocity, variance of different loads and the individual characteristics of different barrels make for an interesting matrix.