Pepper spray / bear spray

[Smash]

Not sure what you meant by the bolded.

With foam if the dude is wearing glasses you may not get any eye contamination. Or, if you don't put some foam in the eye he may be able to wipe it away quick.

With a streamer, just drench their forehead until it runs down into their eyes.

Basically, saying that the sprays mixing with sweat help achieve what you're talking about in your bolded line above. I am saying the sprays are advantageous over the foam in my opinion.

[26 Inf]

Thanks, Smash. Sorry I didn't understand what you meant.

[JediGuy]

Pardon a slight threadjack, but does anyone know if the Fox Labs fog grenades fit within say a BFG frag pouch?

[Smash]

Pardon a slight threadjack, but does anyone know if the Fox Labs fog grenades fit within say a BFG frag pouch?

I dont have a BFG Frag pouch. I have a First Spear Bang pouch which also fits 40mm gas and less lethal rounds and the Fox Grenade fits the FS Pouch. I could post measurements or a comparison photo with another item if needed.

[JediGuy]

Thanks, Smash. Eyeballing it, it looks like the frag pouch would be small, but knowing a bang pouch holds 40mm and the fog grenade both is probably enough. I may play around with some stuff. Thanks for the info.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Based on the suggestion of a friend of mine much more versed on the topic, I'm looking into Fox Labs Mean Green

[teufelhund1918]

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spra...-delivery-mk-4

I can speak from several first hand experiences that this $#!t is evil when compared to other OC sprays I've been in. When we first started using it, it was like hitting a literal wall. Immediate throat clench, eye shutting, panic reaction, etc. Even after you get out of it, it continues to burn. I've had it bad enough that I had skin burn for a couple days afterwards.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spra...p-belt-holster

Personally, I prefer a gel spray. Less chance of it blowing back into your face than a fog. I've seen that happen on a few occasions when officers sprayed outside and it blew back into their faces. It also sticks to a purp's face making it difficult/impossible to get out of it and giving you more of a chance to escape/defend yourself other ways.

You don't have to hit directly in the facial area for any pepper spray/foam/gel to work. If you get them on the chest area, it is still going to be effective.

[El Vaquero]

Interesting. We use Sabre Red Gel at work and about a year ago while fighting a guy my partner sprayed me dead in the face...twice. It hurt and I stopped fighting but it wore off fairly quickly (10 minutes) and I was good to go again. I’ve always considered myself fairly sensitive to OC.

I remember even thinking at the time, I felt I could fight on if I needed to immediately after getting sprayed. I’ve never been a fan of OC on the job because; 1) you usually spray everyone else and 2) It’s not very effective on drunk and high people who are generally the ones that fight.

Having said all that, OC works differently on folks and at the end of the day I’d rather have it than have nothing at all.

Several years back I purchased for my wife some OC made by ASP that was made for key rings. I did purchase the inert inserts to use for training. Good idea to get the training companion inserts.

For awhile we used some by Fox and that was some good shit. One recruit in the academy had to go to the hospital it made his eyes and face swell up so bad.

[26 Inf]

You don't have to hit directly in the facial area for any pepper spray/foam/gel to work. If you get them on the chest area, it is still going to be effective.

You are mistaken. Compared to particles of CN and CS (chemical agents) the organic OC particles are huge. They drop quickly and tend to stay in place. Unless you have direct contact with the particles in the eyes or respiratory tract - as in walking through a fog, or being sprayed in those areas, the OC will have little or no effect.

Unless you are using OC with a CN or CS kicker, the spray on the chest isn't going to do much of anything at all - I used to glove up, spray OC into the gloves and rub OC up and down my arms in front of classes and deliver the chemical agent lecture - to emphasize this fact.

ETA: For skin symptoms - milk and heavy cream seem to work, I've had students who dumped whole gallons of milk into their eyes.

[teufelhund1918]

You are mistaken. Compared to particles of CN and CS (chemical agents) the organic OC particles are huge. They drop quickly and tend to stay in place. Unless you have direct contact with the particles in the eyes or respiratory tract - as in walking through a fog, or being sprayed in those areas, the OC will have little or no effect.

Unless you are using OC with a CN or CS kicker, the spray on the chest isn't going to do much of anything at all - I used to glove up, spray OC into the gloves and rub OC up and down my arms in front of classes and deliver the chemical agent lecture - to emphasize this fact.

ETA: For skin symptoms - milk and heavy cream seem to work, I've had students who dumped whole gallons of milk into their eyes.

I'm sorry, I'm not mistaken and yes, you are correct about having to have contact with the particles to be effective. Speaking from several years of experience with it in pepper ball form and spray/fog from several different dispensers types. You don't always have a direct shot into someone's face. An indirect shot onto the torso is effective. Particulates become airborne from their clothing from movement. Indirect shots can also work on barricaded individuals by hitting objects or walls. Once it is dispensed, some of it remains airborne. You can still tell that CS was used in that area for hours afterwards. Escorting people who have it on them also affects the people doing the escort. People have tried the milk and some wipes that the vendors sell that is suppose to neutralized it along with flushing with water, but the only thing that really works for decontamination is time.