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Thread: 9mm 124 +P v 147 v 300BLK 190gr

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    300BLK specific magazines are HIGHLY recommended.

    We're not satisfied with the magazine feed performance of PMAG 556 or Lancer L5AWM mags with supers and especially not with subs.

    USGI actually work very well with supers and acceptably with subs.

    The PMAG 300B is excellent with all ammo we've tested.
    https://magpul.com/firearm-accessori...obal_color=118





    This is true, but only for the top performing 9mm loads such as HST and Gold Dot.

    For example, a 147 FMJ and a 124 FMJ both suck, while the HST versions are both great.

    Bullet construction is critical for terminal performance of pistol and subsonic 300BLK projectiles.

    Like I was saying to Todd.K, this is a super bummer because I am heavily invested in windowed M3 PMAGs but I guess I need to look into some 300blk PMAGs if I'm serious about keeping 300blk as a duty/carry setup.

    and FMJ doesn't go into my duty/carry mags. No question there.
    Last edited by Sugar; 04-23-20 at 16:16.

  2. #32
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    I'm not convinced the 300 BLK mags are a magic bullet for the really short OAL loads. Like I said, smack the front a few times and see if any rounds slide forward. This will cause the whole stack to bind up.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra276 View Post
    Sugar.
    As most have already spoken of, most of the quality 9mm's will do a pretty good job of expanding at most useful distances for that platform...
    I also have developed a respect for the .300 Blackout platform, which I have found useful beyond pistol engagement distances... As I'm sure you can attest the platform can help improve the shooter's accuracy potential over a pistol, and any number of sighting options can take that platform to distances beyond a pistol or sub-gun.
    Since the state I live in allows us to shoot deer with the .300 Blackout, and with some available permits, some hunters have also been permitted to take deer off of a small Airport with Deer problems. With a suppressor and those Hornady expanding bullets, a friend has taken every deer he has shot at... The group never even moves when the one drops... ( Although this is done with Hand-loads the projectile is the same ) It would be helpful to have an idea what the velocity is from your 5.5", ( so as to know the threshold for them to expand)
    I also loaded up some of the Lehigh Defense Subsonic maximum expansion ( 194 gr.) for a local P.D. that was doing some testing through windshield glass into baistic jel. ( they are currently adding this caliber to their patrol rifle program. The projectile opened up consistently and penetrated some 17-19" in their testing... This was done with a 10.5" barreled Ar platform, but the loads were developed for my 8.5" platform.... Out of my SBR they were loaded to run 1034fps, so I'm not sure what the velocity was from the test barreled 10.5' ...
    This might be the determining factor for your applications... can you find a source to either produce a cartridge or test the available ones on the market to see if they will expand at velocities from your barrel...?
    A very big positive, would be to have a suppressor, which could be a distinct advantage when you want to keep your signature reduced. ( if that is a concern )
    Another positive the .300 brings to the party, is with a change of a magazine you can defeat a number of type's of body armor. ( again dependent on velocity of your chosen barrel length )
    As some have mentioned, the Barnes Black tip 110 gr all copper round is right up there with the best, along side the Hornady offering 110 gr GMX load or Projectile... The Lehigh Defense 110 gr Controlled chaos might also be a consideration depending on how it performs from you barrel length. I push these from my 8.5" barrel at 2,234 very similar to the Hornady 110 gr GMX bullet... ( if I remember correctly the factory load from Hornady with the 110 gr GMX bullet was 100 fps slower from my barrel... This Lehigh Defense 110 gr Controlled Chaos was also tested in ballistic jell with unusual results... Unlike most projectiles, this one sheared off a number of petals within the first 3-4" traveling outward from the initial wound track, ( approximately 10-12" )potentially causing more damage than a single wound track... The base continued 22" ( more than sufficient ) ( aside note these are good for those thin people who often live in mountain regions since they shear off in the first several inches causing more damage than a single projectile can do )
    There will always be unknown's, no magic bullets, but to have a platform you are very familiar with and under adverse conditions it is like an extension of your anatomy, it comes down to reading your AO and the those who move within it...
    https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/s...er-conversion/

    ^this fellow seemed to get an average of 895fps with the SUB-X through his Rattler.

    Definitely interested story from your buddy. What type of platform was your buddy dropping those deer with? inside 50 yards?

    and yes, the ability to defeat body soft armor with a subsonic round is a plus for me when it comes to looking at a PDW sized 300blk setup; very niche work in a more close quarters environment.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I'm not convinced the 300 BLK mags are a magic bullet for the really short OAL loads. Like I said, smack the front a few times and see if any rounds slide forward. This will cause the whole stack to bind up.
    I just grabbed my Rattler. It has a 20rnd M3 PMAG loaded with 110 VMAX. I popped the mag out, dropped it from about 4 feet onto the carpet a few times. 1 round popped out (no biggie); no rounds slid forward however the #2 round misaligned over the 3rd round which cause the mag to not lock in the mag well when inserted. A quick press on that round and it seated properly and the mag locked in the mag well on the 2nd attempt. I cycled the action for 6 rounds and didn't have any jamming issues. Not exactly a field test but sitting here in my office with a screaming baby on a thursday night; it's all I can manage right now. I'll need to throw the damn thing around at the range next time I can get out there.

  5. #35
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    Sugar.
    I contacted my friend that does a lot of hunting with the 300 Black out, and he advised that his load for taking deer is usually the Maker 190 or 200 grn expanding Sub-Sonic projectile, moving 1,000 fps.( he loads his own) out of his Noveske 8.5". So far to date he has taken them out to 150 yrds, with no pass through... I believe Maker sells ammunition as well as projectiles, but don't know what velocities they would be from your 5.5' barrel...
    I just jumped on their web site, and thy advertise they can load these projectiles for your barrel length, and desired velocity, so this might be a good direction to take...
    Another point to cover, I have used Magpul M3 mags for super as well as Subsonic cartridges... I remove the internals and use a file to take down the outer rib that would normally press in on the projectile... About 25-30 thousands on each side... this prevents those ribs from pushing longer projectiles toward the inside of the mag, away from the feed ramps...
    Last edited by Sierra276; 04-27-20 at 20:59.

  6. #36
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    I've seen FBI protocol tests at a few ballistics shoots with hornady 300 blk and was impressed with the performance. I have only seen data or gel tests with 8" min though so I cant say how it would perform with the rattler. I'm running an 8" B&T as it fits in a backpack but gives me rifle performance. I will say that theres places a backpack cant go and that its faster to run my 19 on my hip so realistically I'm most likely to shoot someone with my handgun while carrying a backpack with a great gun in it. If something truely unusual happens then it will be nice to have 80 rounds of 300 on tap though.

    In the house I'm considering running the same gun with Hornadys 110grn TAP so I punch as few walls as possible. I'm willing to accept the tradeoff of it losing some penetration vs not smoking the wrong people. I have some subX but again I'll stick to supersonic currently. The biggest argument I can see for running subs in the house suppressed is no deafening the family to death which is a real concern.

    This gun replaced a CZ scorpion intended for the same purpose but I realized for the around the same size I could get far better performance in the same package. If there was a more significant size difference (22"apc300 vs 16" scorpion pistol) I'd be convinced to reconsider the 9mm PCC.
    Last edited by anubismp; 04-29-20 at 08:47.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra276 View Post
    Sugar.
    I contacted my friend that does a lot of hunting with the 300 Black out, and he advised that his load for taking deer is usually the Maker 190 or 200 grn expanding Sub-Sonic projectile, moving 1,000 fps.( he loads his own) out of his Noveske 8.5". So far to date he has taken them out to 150 yrds, with no pass through... I believe Maker sells ammunition as well as projectiles, but don't know what velocities they would be from your 5.5' barrel...
    I just jumped on their web site, and thy advertise they can load these projectiles for your barrel length, and desired velocity, so this might be a good direction to take...
    Another point to cover, I have used Magpul M3 mags for super as well as Subsonic cartridges... I remove the internals and use a file to take down the outer rib that would normally press in on the projectile... About 25-30 thousands on each side... this prevents those ribs from pushing longer projectiles toward the inside of the mag, away from the feed ramps...
    Thanks for looking into that.

    If the magazine issue is a real concern, i'll probably just grab some lancers. It's a bit of a bummer because part of the 300blk draw for me was using the same 223/556 mags.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by anubismp View Post
    I've seen FBI protocol tests at a few ballistics shoots with hornady 300 blk and was impressed with the performance. I have only seen data or gel tests with 8" min though so I cant say how it would perform with the rattler. I'm running an 8" B&T as it fits in a backpack but gives me rifle performance. I will say that theres places a backpack cant go and that its faster to run my 19 on my hip so realistically I'm most likely to shoot someone with my handgun while carrying a backpack with a great gun in it. If something truely unusual happens then it will be nice to have 80 rounds of 300 on tap though.

    In the house I'm considering running the same gun with Hornadys 110grn TAP so I punch as few walls as possible. I'm willing to accept the tradeoff of it losing some penetration vs not smoking the wrong people. I have some subX but again I'll stick to supersonic currently. The biggest argument I can see for running subs in the house suppressed is no deafening the family to death which is a real concern.

    This gun replaced a CZ scorpion intended for the same purpose but I realized for the around the same size I could get far better performance in the same package. If there was a more significant size difference (22"apc300 vs 16" scorpion pistol) I'd be convinced to reconsider the 9mm PCC.
    With such a unique weapon system, I'm going to have to track someone down with the same setup who's done the testing. I reached out the Hornady but they couldn't offer any input into how the 110 VMAX or 190 SUBX would work out of the Sig Rattler 5.5"

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