Are We In A Police State?

[jsbhike]

There's still so much that the healthcare profession doesn't understand about this virus.

Not only don't know, but quickly are proven to be not correct such as the mask issue which was either ignorance or dishonesty. No consequences for them making wrongful claims which leads to action either with a lot of this teetering on shouting fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire.

We do know what happens when an economy is destroyed though.

[jsbhike]

11

One thing that we must remember is that these critically ill patients are not the norm. They never were, and with the increased testing we see that they are an even smaller percentage. The overwhelming vast majority of these patients have multiple comorbidities at baseline (e.g. obesity, hypertension, diabetes, coronary artery disease, etc.). I have seen only 3 patients in the 20-30yo range, and none of them were healthy at baseline. My hospital converted 4 of their ICUs (~130 beds) to treat critically ill COVID patients.

Don’t forget that hospitals are getting paid lots of money for treating COVID positive patients (e.g. $6k per patient per day). Many causes of deaths are being certified as “COVID” just because a patient has a positive test result, regardless of the actual pathology or sequence of events that lead to their death.

Early on the global medical community was preemptively intubating and mechanically ventilating patients who probably didn’t need it. Unfortunately, we thought the respiratory failure from COVID most closely resembled classical or typical ARDS. It took a couple months for us to realize that there were two phenotypes of COVID induced respiratory failure , that require different treatment modalities. Our previous treatment paradigm may have actually contributed to the morbidity and mortality in these patients. We have since changed our practices.

TL;DR: I just don’t understand these ICU nurses posting shit all over Facebook like it’s the end of the world - because it’s not.

You'll get branded as a crazy for that kind of talk. I was traveling out of town a few days ago and heard all of those points stretched in to about an hour on Alex Jones show.

[AKDoug]

The police state is happening at a local level. I'm lucky because it is not at my local or state government level. You have to remember, that same lady that's screaming on Facebook that her neighbors are going to get her killed because they chose to go fishing and maintain social distancing, is the same type of lady that was elected mayor of a small town or even a large city. Since this is a unique situation, we really don't know how someone is going to react in this type of pandemic. It crosses political lines too.

[TomMcC]

It dawned on me this morning while I was getting ready for my essential job (by the way, you should all be shifting your lives to essential jobs, got to be prepared) what the future solution to our present emergency is. We should make closing non-essential jobs, social distancing, wearing masks in public, closing down public places, limiting travel, barring gatherings of more than 10 people (it is 10 right?) permanent. The reason is we were not prepared and it has cost us over 58k people...do you realize that's more deaths than the Vietnam war!! We got caught looking, so if we had had these practices in place from the very beginning those over 58k dead people would still be here, because it's proven by science that that's why only 58k+ people died instead of 258k+. We must do everything possible to save lives. If it means having to make these practices permanent, it's worth it. I also propose that we ratchet up the fines and jail time for violations, because saving lives requires strict adherence or it won't save lives. Think of your neighbors and then stay away from them.

[AndyLate]

Deleted - I think there is some joke that went over my head.

[Vic79]

It dawned on me this morning while I was getting ready for my essential job (by the way, you should all be shifting your lives to essential jobs, got to be prepared) what the future solution to our present emergency is. We should make closing non-essential jobs, social distancing, wearing masks in public, closing down public places, limiting travel, barring gatherings of more than 10 people (it is 10 right?) permanent. The reason is we were not prepared and it has cost us over 58k people...do you realize that's more deaths than the Vietnam war!! We got caught looking, so if we had had these practices in place from the very beginning those over 58k dead people would still be here, because it's proven by science that that's why only 58k+ people died instead of 258k+. We must do everything possible to save lives. If it means having to make these practices permanent, it's worth it. I also propose that we ratchet up the fines and jail time for violations, because saving lives requires strict adherence or it won't save lives. Think of your neighbors and then stay away from them.

That would be for the greater good. It’s the only reasonable thing to do.

[TomMcC]

That would be for the greater good. It’s the only reasonable thing to do.

Here's one that really grieved me and wrinkled my mind. 1.25 million people have died in car crashes in the U.S. since the invention of cars in 1899. That over 10k a year. I'm sure it has been much worst on average since the '50s. And here we are still driving the blasted death traps. What really chaps my hide though is that governments have signed off on this carnage. Since its obvious we're too stupid to save ourselves, the government's should have stepped in long ago to save us, because saving lives is the most important thing we can do. Just ask Andrew Cuomo, he said that if it saved one life it was worth locking us down...I think he's my new hero.

[Todd.K]

The first week of the pandemic, I was getting firsthand reports of 30-year-old patients with 0 health issues going on the ventilator, people dying of multiple organ failure, etc.

The statistics on mortality are what they are.

Anecdotal outlier stories are what they are.

Non essential medical care can only be put off for so long before it becomes a major problem.

Economic impacts are what they are, and can include long term health, mental health, and substance abuse problems.

NYC's ability to get to almost 25 percent positive antibody tests in spite of a lockdown is what it is.

Less densely populated areas and especially rural have a much, much lower rate of spread, but the same lockdown?

There is no easy answer, and each of those has to be given some subjective weight.

[Life's a Hillary]

Here's one that really grieved me and wrinkled my mind. 1.25 million people have died in car crashes in the U.S. since the invention of cars in 1899. That over 10k a year. I'm sure it has been much worst on average since the '50s. And here we are still driving the blasted death traps. What really chaps my hide though is that governments have signed off on this carnage. Since its obvious we're too stupid to save ourselves, the government's should have stepped in long ago to save us, because saving lives is the most important thing we can do. Just ask Andrew Cuomo, he said that if it saved one life it was worth locking us down...I think he's my new hero.

You really can’t understand the difference between car crash fatalities and a contagious virus causing deaths and potentially overwhelming our healthcare system?

[TomMcC]

You really can’t understand the difference between car crash fatalities and a contagious virus causing deaths and potentially overwhelming our healthcare system?

You're obviously not serious about saving lives. Since you disagree with me that saving any life is THE most important thing that makes you immoral. You're not even serious about this killer pandemic since you havent signed on to making these policies and practices permanent. We must be prepared for the next pandemic which could happen any time. Even a delay of a week could cost someone their life.