Are We In A Police State?

[teufelhund1918]

It's more than just government involved in the "police state" mentality. If you do something out of line and the media or the "social elite" don't like it, then you're screwed if you don't get in line with their thinking. Here is an example I just read. The kid was right about the 3%er history, but the elites label 3%'ers as a hate group.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/04/...-tv-interview/

[yoni]

We have all seen stupid things done by members of government during this time, the people given citations are driving to their churches parking lot so they could pick up the service on their car radios, the man arrested on his own private beach in front of him home.

We also see in many locations, the lock down easing off.

For those here that think the government doesn't have the right to protect public health in a time of a pandemic. I am glad your a minority, in your thinking.

I think NY did a lot good and a lot bad. I think the same of the Federal government. I think one of the best responses has been by the governor of SD, she hit the SD nail on the head perfect from what I can see.

I keep going back to the models that everyone used came out of Bill Gates pocket. I have not really been around Bill Gates a few times we were in the same room. I have run into people from his foundation in Africa, and I have no use for a lot of what he is pushing. They are typical progressive "elite" ideas, that in my view are racist, ignorant, and just evil. I have in the past had several conversations with Gates father, an arrogant prick, to say the least. So when you look at the history of Gates and Jobs, I think it points out volumes of who Gates is.

I hate being told what to do by the State. When my State mandated wearing of masks, I was livid. But I think when going out for scotch and groceries, wearing something over my face is smart. I just hate having it shoved down my throat.

In high population centers, the government must impose it's will on the people to stop the spread of Corona. I look at the stupid effing Jews in NY and NJ, as late as last night they were violating in NY city social distancing and wearing of masks at a Rabbi's funeral. The only good part is these people stay to themselves for the most part so if they spread it among themselves the spread to the rest of the city will be little to none. But if even one person outside their community get Corona, I wish the government would give me the job to hunts these arrogant ignorant sons of bitches down and shoot them. They piss me off so much.

But to do the same things as NY city all across the USA, in principle I have problems with that. But then OH58D, informs us that Corona is now going through the Navajo reservation like Sherman through the south.

This makes me sit back down and go wow, this is really bad. So maybe the federal government was correct all along.

So in the space of this post, I have gone back and forth on the issue. The issue is just that complicated.

Here is what the real issue is. If government keeps up with the current behavior post Corona or not. If we go back to normal, then we don't have a police state and it all worked as good as possible.

If we have locations that keep in place restrictions beyond this, then we have a multiple solution to solving that, our fore fathers were so wise that they had the understanding to give us a court system to address abuse of power and if that doesn't work. We have the Second Amendment.

[Business_Casual]

Last I checked, I was able to go to the grocery store, buy food, bring it home and eat it.

Interesting. So the only place every single one of us can go, and does go, weekly, in our neighborhood is not a vector for sharing the virus and no one brought it home from the grocery when we all know every single person you know has been to the grocery store? My point is that the quarantine was never going to work anyway and the lock down “requests” should have been for vulnerable only.

[jsbhike]

Respectfully, I gather you are not an attorney by trade.
I have had a few occasions to be in the sensitive discussions with federal government policy makers and their supporting legal counsels. Oft cited is the Insurrection Act, dating to a certain Geo. Washington, as well as the broad deference given FDR by the US Supreme Court in the Japanese-American Internment during the Second World War. The operative US federal public health law dates to steam ships, circa 1949 IIRC. Harry Truman was President then and interracial marriage was still a crime in plenty of states. The Defense Production Act, invoked by Trump today, is a relic of 1950.

On the state side, the role of sanitary commissions or public health boards is well established. Most of that law has laid fallow since the end of the polio epidemics in the 1950’s, but nearly every state has extensive statutory and case law. Hawaii and Alaska might be a bit light due to their late accession to the Union, but it e it’s in dusty books. As someone who worked with these issues, it would only see rare uses for certain extreme cases of IV drug-based TB or obscure diseases such as monkey pox.

Not here to pick any fights, but the law is unusually black and white on most public health issues. That clarity cuts both ways.

There's always an emergency and courts are going to side with empowering their team more often than not.

[jsbhike]

Interesting. So the only place every single one of us can go, and does go, weekly, in our neighborhood is not a vector for sharing the virus and no one brought it home from the grocery when we all know every single person you know has been to the grocery store? My point is that the quarantine was never going to work anyway and the lock down “requests” should have been for vulnerable only.

The main vector seems to be Christian churches. Even sitting inside a car with the windows rolled up in a church parking lot is a threat to public health according to certain officials.

[jsbhike]

For those here that think the government doesn't have the right to protect public health in a time of a pandemic. I am glad your a minority, in your thinking.

The catch is zero, or at least nearly so, accountability. We keep getting lots of "we don't know" either as a direct statement or via constantly changing the story. Despite not knowing, there are a plethora of people who have absolutely no qualms with telling people exactly what they can and cannot do along with threats for not comying, yet and there appears to be no sanctions for when those special snow flakes are wrong.

You and I are protected by Good Samaritan laws to a point, but if we act outside our level of knowledge we will get hammered civilly and likely criminally..

[yoni]

I am amazed at how people respond to this.

I am on the record as questioning the models paid for by Gates.

Having said that, lets for a second put you in the oval office behind the desk. The top doctors in the country come to you and say," Mr. President we really haven't been in this situation before. But we have modeling from the University of Washington which is one of the top experts about modeling in the country.
At first we thought we were going to get through this without taking a bid hit, but now the modeling says up to 2,000,000 dead in the USA".

The President responds, with "what do we have to do to avoid 2 million dead'? Of course he is thinking if that many people die on my watch, I will not get reelected. But I believe Trump is a good guy that really cares about the American people.

So he follows the best advice he can find.

Did he make some mistakes of course he did, as did his medical advisors. So what?

The time has come to start opening up some locations and now deal with the sick economy.

I don't think anyone here, is capable of doing a better job.

[The_War_Wagon]

All the reporting on how bad this was going to be was fake news and it was no accident.
Watch this to the very end...keep watching after its appears to be over.

The link is disabled. Is that the 2 doctors from Bakersfield video?

WOTTA surprise...

[teufelhund1918]

Another thing that is concerning. The gubbamint wants to give Google access to everyone's phones so that they can follow the so called spread of the virus by contact tracing of people. They are doing it now on some levels. But they promise that once the pandemic is over with that the app and Google's access will be shut off... Yea, they have such a good track record of keeping promises. Once they have access, they will continue to monitor people legally or not. History has proven this to be true. Perhaps everyone needs a chip implanted in their heads so that they can monitor our movement and body's vitals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...us-phone-data/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...navirus-2020-3

[Alex V]

In many respect that is true, but this is also a test run to see how effectively we can quarantine a particularly aggressive virus that we currently don't have a vaccine for.

And I swear to god if Trump and state governors did NOTHING, Trump would be being impeached right now and HALF of this forum would be saying "the government did it ON PURPOSE when THEY KNEW how dangerous it was and they did NOTHING."

If everyone simply kept going to work, going to the gym, going out to eat and the movies while their kids went to daycare and school and every state saw a thousand children die of this shit everyone here would be singing a different song and it wouldn't be about the dangers of big brother locking us down.

Last I checked, I was able to go to the grocery store, buy food, bring it home and eat it. My business is getting kicked in the pants because even though lots of people might want to buy a gun, I don't have a drive through option and PEOPLE are choosing to limit their exposure and not do an in person purchase.

But just like I have a emergency supply of guns, ammo and food for "just in case" I also have a little bit of "cash on hand" just in case. Well "just in case" is happening right now. I hope everyone did the same and it's simply a hardship and not a "might lose everything" situation.

Also I don't think anyone throwing words around like "police state" has ever seen one. I've seen the DDR, that was a police state. You felt it as soon as you checked in. China is a police state, they can't even complain on the internet without getting an official visit.

We are in danger of becoming a "nanny state", but not nearly as bad as say England. And while there is some merit to yelling "bullshit" during these times as that helps prevent us from becoming a nanny state like England, you also have to think "what would happen if we DIDN'T do it this way."

And if you really and truly have a better solution, you should be running for governor or applying for work with the CDC or something along those lines.

I agree that had Trump done nothing, he would have been vilified even more so. For him it was a damned if you do and damned if you don't. Having said that, the initial lock down suggestions were based on models which are now clearly proven to have been grossly incorrect. I think the tell is when we all see that they were incorrect, but the government overreach does not decrease in accordance. That is when we know their true intentions are not our safety.

But is that because they weren't at risk or because of preventative measures?

NY is working on 20,000+ dead, it's not like that's some kind of hoax. Those people are dead.

Yes, but what did they actually die from? NYC added 3700+ people who never had a positive COVID test. We know many more are added who may not have actually died from COVID.