Are We In A Police State?

[TomMcC]

We have all seen stupid things done by members of government during this time, the people given citations are driving to their churches parking lot so they could pick up the service on their car radios, the man arrested on his own private beach in front of him home.

We also see in many locations, the lock down easing off.

For those here that think the government doesn't have the right to protect public health in a time of a pandemic. I am glad your a minority, in your thinking.

I think NY did a lot good and a lot bad. I think the same of the Federal government. I think one of the best responses has been by the governor of SD, she hit the SD nail on the head perfect from what I can see.

I keep going back to the models that everyone used came out of Bill Gates pocket. I have not really been around Bill Gates a few times we were in the same room. I have run into people from his foundation in Africa, and I have no use for a lot of what he is pushing. They are typical progressive "elite" ideas, that in my view are racist, ignorant, and just evil. I have in the past had several conversations with Gates father, an arrogant prick, to say the least. So when you look at the history of Gates and Jobs, I think it points out volumes of who Gates is.

I hate being told what to do by the State. When my State mandated wearing of masks, I was livid. But I think when going out for scotch and groceries, wearing something over my face is smart. I just hate having it shoved down my throat.

In high population centers, the government must impose it's will on the people to stop the spread of Corona. I look at the stupid effing Jews in NY and NJ, as late as last night they were violating in NY city social distancing and wearing of masks at a Rabbi's funeral. The only good part is these people stay to themselves for the most part so if they spread it among themselves the spread to the rest of the city will be little to none. But if even one person outside their community get Corona, I wish the government would give me the job to hunts these arrogant ignorant sons of bitches down and shoot them. They piss me off so much.

But to do the same things as NY city all across the USA, in principle I have problems with that. But then OH58D, informs us that Corona is now going through the Navajo reservation like Sherman through the south.

This makes me sit back down and go wow, this is really bad. So maybe the federal government was correct all along.

So in the space of this post, I have gone back and forth on the issue. The issue is just that complicated.

Here is what the real issue is. If government keeps up with the current behavior post Corona or not. If we go back to normal, then we don't have a police state and it all worked as good as possible.

If we have locations that keep in place restrictions beyond this, then we have a multiple solution to solving that, our fore fathers were so wise that they had the understanding to give us a court system to address abuse of power and if that doesn't work. We have the Second Amendment.

Governments don't have rights, they have power and authority...and I'm still waiting for anyone, anywhere, anytime to appeal to and actually state the laws or codes to justify this whole shut down.

[jsbhike]

I am amazed at how people respond to this.

I am on the record as questioning the models paid for by Gates.

Having said that, lets for a second put you in the oval office behind the desk. The top doctors in the country come to you and say," Mr. President we really haven't been in this situation before. But we have modeling from the University of Washington which is one of the top experts about modeling in the country.
At first we thought we were going to get through this without taking a bid hit, but now the modeling says up to 2,000,000 dead in the USA".

The President responds, with "what do we have to do to avoid 2 million dead'? Of course he is thinking if that many people die on my watch, I will not get reelected. But I believe Trump is a good guy that really cares about the American people.

So he follows the best advice he can find.

Did he make some mistakes of course he did, as did his medical advisors. So what?

The time has come to start opening up some locations and now deal with the sick economy.

I don't think anyone here, is capable of doing a better job.

My comments were not specific to Trump.

If everything was just one mistake after another, then why aren't the people making the Wild guesses gone?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Interesting. So the only place every single one of us can go, and does go, weekly, in our neighborhood is not a vector for sharing the virus and no one brought it home from the grocery when we all know every single person you know has been to the grocery store? My point is that the quarantine was never going to work anyway and the lock down “requests” should have been for vulnerable only.

RISK=Hazard * Exposure

Once a week exposure is far different than multiple exposures everyday. Work, gym, dinner, lunch and a stop here and there. So maybe in a week 50 interactions versus 1. You get what I'm gettin' at Verne? That greatly reduces the spread.

The catch is zero, or at least nearly so, accountability. We keep getting lots of "we don't know" either as a direct statement or via constantly changing the story. Despite not knowing, there are a plethora of people who have absolutely no qualms with telling people exactly what they can and cannot do along with threats for not comying, yet and there appears to be no sanctions for when those special snow flakes are wrong.

You and I are protected by Good Samaritan laws to a point, but if we act outside our level of knowledge we will get hammered civilly and likely criminally..

Politicians f up. You can you can vote them out if you don't like their leadership. Until then, they are the leader.

Another thing that is concerning. The gubbamint wants to give Google access to everyone's phones so that they can follow the so called spread of the virus by contact tracing of people. They are doing it now on some levels. But they promise that once the pandemic is over with that the app and Google's access will be shut off... Yea, they have such a good track record of keeping promises. Once they have access, they will continue to monitor people legally or not. History has proven this to be true. Perhaps everyone needs a chip implanted in their heads so that they can monitor our movement and body's vitals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...us-phone-data/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...navirus-2020-3

To me, this is where all this is headed and where the real issues come from. When we know more about the hazard and can better estimate risk and the decisions on the exposure- how much interaction.

So you put this on your phone and someone pings positive that you came close to- what then? Make you take a test? Make you hard quaratine at home- and the real question, to me the true line, they get to take you to a facility.... I don't think that we'll get to that, mainly because it would be too many people. More likely, the issue will become that you aren't allowed out and back to work until you put the tracking on your devices- so either comply or be removed from society...

I agree that had Trump done nothing, he would have been vilified even more so. For him it was a damned if you do and damned if you don't. Having said that, the initial lock down suggestions were based on models which are now clearly proven to have been grossly incorrect. I think the tell is when we all see that they were incorrect, but the government overreach does not decrease in accordance. That is when we know their true intentions are not our safety.



Yes, but what did they actually die from? NYC added 3700+ people who never had a positive COVID test. We know many more are added who may not have actually died from COVID.

Northern Italy and Spain. This thing kills. It also maims, something that hasn't been as widely reported or focused on. If infection doesn't confer immunity, and you get COVID a second time, I'm thinking that a lot of those people aren't going to survive their second ride of the rollercoaster....

Governments don't have rights, they have power and authority...and I'm still waiting for anyone, anywhere, anytime to appeal to and actually state the laws or codes to justify this whole shut down.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...navirus-135826
https://reason.com/2020/03/18/police...not-unlimited/

State by state is probably going to vary, with even cities having codes.
Here is CO:
https://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-2...5-1-5-102.html

(c) To establish, maintain, and enforce isolation and quarantine, and, in pursuance thereof and for this purpose only, to exercise such physical control over property and the persons of the people within this state as the department may find necessary for the protection of the public health;

I know people don't like it, but public health and communicable diseases gives the local govts a lot of power, probably because dicking around in the past with things like Cholera, smallpox, polio, and others didn't give people time to argue the finer points.

[TomMcC]

Thanks for looking that up, although I dont give much credence to sites like Politico or Reason. I am interested in the actual relevant laws though and will look this one over carefully.

[scooter22]

Facebook, Twitter, etc. are now actively censoring articles and videos that don't follow the media narrative.

Mayor DeBlasio of NYC stating on twitter that he has ordered the police to arrest anyone gathering in groups.

https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1255309615883063297

More information is coming out about Dr. Fauci funding the lab in Wuhan to perform gain-of-function experiments on viruses. These types of experiments were previously banned. This same lab has been performing experiments that have been *published* on bat coronaviruses focusing on the S protein (the viral capsid protein that allows the SARS-Cov-2 virus to attach to the ACE2 receptor), and make this virus infectious to other animals AND humans.

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-ba...Rf6nTfM_K04o8A

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Thanks for looking that up, although I dont give much credence to sites like Politico or Reason. I am interested in the actual relevant laws though and will look this one over carefully.

Try that last link for findlaw.com . The laws are probably pretty dated, since they haven't had to be used widely in over 75 years and not really for 100 or more. Probably need some updating. It seems to me that it all hinges on 'public health', because that could mean anything. Hell, you can, and they do say that guns are a public health issue- so it could definitely be abused if you want to. I don't think it is the laws as much as the leadership, and that the courts will only curb the most egregious issues. I definitely see the need for the laws and powers, but even good laws can lead to bad behavior- sometimes even from the best of intentions, which unfortunately isn't the case.

I'm not a fan of Polis here, better than Chickenlooper, but he has been playing this pretty much down the middle. Little to no Trump bashing, just behind the GOP govs on opening things up.

[tvfreakarms]

Look up event 201, id2020 etc etc.

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[scooter22]

Look up event 201, id2020 etc etc.

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I have known about both of these since Day 1 of the SARS-Cov-2 outbreak.

Would like to see some discussion on this forum about this.

::Puts on tinfoil::

[Vic79]

You couldn’t make this shit up.

[manbearpig]

Yes, but what did they actually die from? NYC added 3700+ people who never had a positive COVID test. We know many more are added who may not have actually died from COVID.

If this is true then the corona death toll numbers that are being put out mean absolutely nothing.